QDM Good vs Bad

[Gill-T]

QDM Good vs Bad

I am hearing rumors that the DEC is considering antler restrictions in the future.  It would appear that the QDM groups are carrying a louder voice.  The business of growing big deer is great in theory but is having some undesirable effects.  Infiltration of anti-hunters into QDM groups has muddled the picture further.  

 

As more and more people leave the farm for the cities, the anti-hunting voices grow......and as they grow, politicians wanting to get elected hear them.  Rumors of anti-hunters posing as pro-QDM hunter-groups walking around outdoor shows and collecting signatures of unsuspecting outdoorsmen.  These "sales people" will show outdoorsmen pictures of big bucks and say "do you want to shoot deer like these?"........then you should be for antler restrictions....sign here.  It would seem that the anti's are for reduction in the killing of deer in any form they can make happen.....and going to QDM (despite the premise of reducing doe numbers to better buck to doe ratios) will reduce deer take.  Look at Illinois.  They allow for 6 days of gun season!  Yes, they allow for generous bow seasons and a muzzle season but again......these long primitive arms seasons at the expense of a short gun season means less deer taken.  This makes the anti's happy.  So much of Illinois hunting land has been scooped up by trophy-lease companies, access to hunting ground has become impossible.  The business of hunting is booming.  Good for farmers and outfitters.......bad for the average Joe.  I was a staunch QDM guy.  Our deer camp in Arkport was one of the first to institute QDM in New York in the 80's.  At first QDM was as advertised......let young bucks walk and you have opportunities for trophies.  Shoot more does and there is more food for deer over winter.  Good for the herd.  These tenants of QDM are true.  After eight years or so of QDM we had 140" eight pointers being taken.  Along with success comes demand as more groups become interested in QDM land.  Demand will drive the almighty dollar.  In the end my cousins had offers they could not refuse and sold off weeks on their properties thereby dissolving our family deer camp group.  It happened to our group 20 years ago.  It is happening now in the heartland.  

 

Two nights ago I watched a PBS show on deer and Lyme Disease.  There was a town in Massachusetts (which  does not allow hunting) that is tranquilizing deer and paying veterinarians to give hysterectomies to does!  How un-godly and unnatural!!  I am sure most of the anti's in these suburban towns enjoy eating steak.  The hypocrisy of anti's........

 

I am firmly against state-mandated antler restrictions.......I have come full circle.  I see antler restrictions for what they really are.......a restriction.  The last thing we need are more of our hunting freedoms taken away.  Time to wake up New York.  If you are against antler restrictions it is time to let your voice heard.  Yelling at a DEC meeting does nothing.......you actually have to write or email your government officials. Please do not sign any petitions if you don't know what it is and who is behind the petition!  

Edited April 8, 2017 by Gill-T

[Gator]

More and more young hunters are practicing voluntary restraint, which is good for seeing bigger bucks and good for the guys who chase them, but antler restrictions don't have any basis in biological management. It's for the hunters, not the deer. QDM on the other hand has a larger scope and includes science based management, even though it also preaches restraint. However, it's notable that since hunting became big business, the masses have moved whichever way they're told by their favorite "tv personality". How'd you like to have been in on the camo revolution, maybe "invented" mossy oak? Even the QDMA which started out great seems to have sold out. They closed their forums this year which contained lots of information on how to plot, etc...in favor of selling some commercial top grade seed mix their sponsor makes that only costs you half a year's salary.

 

In other words, money talks, BS walks. Antler restrictions are being sold to us and somebody, somewhere has an agenda and $$ to make. Hunters needs to practice their own ethos and make their own decisions. I like seeing big bucks, but I agree that more rules is the last thing we need.

[spinfly]

Has anyone heard if the antler restriction portion was passed with the state budget?  I can't seem to find any results mentioned. Even if not, I believe there are still bills in the Senate and Assembly to be acted on.

[BSmaster]

"Don't shoot the king's deer" Haha.

 

The evergrowing antihunting sentiment - I call it the "Disney Effect"  I remind my children constantly that bears are not friends with deer in real life.  30 years ago we teased the anti hunters with bambi but I think now they have the upper hand which is why I say it is very important to do things the right way when you hunt.

 

Lease land has been increasing for years now.  Use to be you asked permission and helped the farmer out when he needed it and gave him a deer or two and it was fine but when they realize that the lease helps him take care of land that he can not watch constantly and he gets money for his land taxes.  I understand it and I can't argue against it.

 

Antler restriction is something I am against but won't piss and moan about it if it happens.  Doesn't part of NY already do this?  I know PA does it.  It isn't the same but kinda is the way fishermen berate other fisherman for not doing what they consider ethical even though they are not breaking any laws.  That is kinda how I feel when someone promotes antler restriction.  The same way I feel when someone says the stream fisherman should have let the steelhead go.  I let young bucks and fawns pass and also let trout go but I don't think it is bad for some to harvest these animals (legally).  Hunting for trophy is not really what hunting is about or is that what we have made it.  A lot of us say that these days, however, That sportsman thing happened later in our culture when we had more than enough to eat.  I remember when my family had to be successful in the garden and in deer season or Christmas would suck.  One of the articles they posted talks about the number of hunters who say they hunt for meat grows every year.  What does antler restriction do to address this?  At least the buck to doe ratio will even out because you know the doe permits will be filled now.  There are still many traditionalists who don't shoot does and others who prefer not to if they can shoot a buck instead.  Rant over - Don't know why I typed so much.   The sun will still come up tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

[Nautitroller]

Well said BS. I'd add that if you are lucky enough to own a piece of ground that you can hunt on, it should be up to you as to which deer you would like to harvest. I do my best to increase the carrying capacity of the land I hunt and I feel it's up to the hunter to make their choice to shoot a whichever it be, a young deer or trophy buck if you like. To put restrictions on us ludicrous! NY state has already taken away our rights that were given to us in our deeds. We just rent the property from the state and county. Owning land in NY has become taxing in all definitions. I like to kill mature bucks yes but I love to have back straps on charcoal more! QDM should be quality deer land management with the emphasis on improving the carrying capacity and bettering the herd. Requiring that you pass on a deer that you may enjoy eating way more than your wife enjoys hitting with her new car just doesn't make sense.

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[momay4000]

1 hour ago, Nautitroller said:

Well said BS. I'd add that if you are lucky enough to own a piece of ground that you can hunt on, it should be up to you as to which deer you would like to harvest. I do my best to increase the carrying capacity of the land I hunt and I feel it's up to the hunter to make their choice to shoot a whichever it be, a young deer or trophy buck if you like. To put restrictions on us ludicrous! NY state has already taken away our rights that were given to us in our deeds. We just rent the property from the state and county. Owning land in NY has become taxing in all definitions. I like to kill mature bucks yes but I love to have back straps on charcoal more! QDM should be quality deer land management with the emphasis on improving the carrying capacity and bettering the herd. Requiring that you pass on a deer that you may enjoy eating way more than your wife enjoys hitting with her new car just doesn't make sense.

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Fabulous post my friend - couldn't have said it better myself.....and I am an avid landowner and hunter that practices QDM.

 

Perfect post - thanks for sharing,

 

Chris

 

 

[landingzone]

Our Legislative VP says that neither yearling buck protection/antler restrictions nor any new crossbow provisions made it through in the budget that was just passed.

The above is the response to a question I asked the NYSCC.


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[Gator]

Given the number of guys on here that chase big bucks, it's amazing that thus far opinions have all been similar: let folks chose for themselves. It's good to see. It's easier to support a decision made by choice rather than by force. In fact, it's exhausting trying to keep up with all the stuff that you're "supposed" to do. I don't mind when there's a valid reason to enforce a communal decision, but a choice freely made is much more powerful, and regardless there's no evidence that AR will be good for the herd.

 

This from a guy who supports QDM, has planted thousands of trees and shrubs for habitat improvement over the last two years, and tries to only shoot bigger bucks than he's shot before...it was five years between my last bow buck and this year's. But that's my choice, not the government's.

 

 

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Great thread guys. One things for sure, "Trophyism" is sucking the fun out of deer hunting for many of the young guys. I had a mother of a twentysomething deer hunter tell me last November that her son was suffering from anxiety and depression. The reason? All the social media posts he had to endure daily, showing others with giant deer while he saw very little. Definitely something to think about.

BTW  BSmaster, my 25 yr old daughter reminded me at Easter dinner than I never let her or her younger brother watch Bambi. Neither of them hunt but they both understand it's necessity and can certainly put a dent in jerky.

Good luck on the water.  

[Gator]

Heck, it's not just young guys...my buddy and co-owner of Nothing but Net suffered exactly the same thing!!  

[HOLY DIVER]

You must be referring to the December downs ,

 

The clinical term - Deerpression

deer·pres·sion

də€RˈpreSH(ə)n/

noun

1. 1.

   feelings of severe despondency and dejection, when the rut comes and goes and your phone is blowing up with BBD pictures and you still have a buck tag

   "self-doubt creeps in and that swiftly turns to deepression"

[BSmaster]

I know it all too well...  

[DJ 17]

Your depression... happily sponsored by Outdoor TV.