IJC 2014 White House petition

[Time Out]

IJC 2014 White House petition

Here's the link to the petition

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/overturn-ijc-plan-2014

[Gill-T]

Definitely an experiment gone horribly wrong. Towns are going to loose millions. 

[Xxx]

I still don't completely understand this 2014 ordeal, what happened to the talk about opening the locks? If it says like this most of the summer Montreal going to stay status quo, or open the locks what's wet already is damaged anyway. Why not open the locks get the water down to a doable hight and start on repairs. I can't believe the Ins. Co's haven't put the squeeze on the government already?? It didn't take long for the car Ins. Co. To squeeze the game comm. to dump doe tags out for 3-4 years and the boys did a great job of filling tags. UNTILL you couldn't buy a deer. Free vehicles for the game comm. even bought the men in green new uniforms, all kind of incentives to keep the deer population down. So I guess when the billions of dollars start come out of their pockets, then the Ins. Co. will put the squeeze on the government!! Till then it sucks to be a happy homeowner with property on the lake. Sad, Sad Deal. How about the mom & pop shops that depend on the lake fisherman, I'm sure that's been down with the dock ramps 6" to 3' under, last I was up the camp owner wouldn't allow people to use the walk way to the docks. We searched around for useable dock, we found one! But that's a unload and a reload, not that I wouldn't approve of this is the idea of the whole mess. I'm sure I'm not the only one who didn't get the bottom of their boats wet yet??

[Roughrider IV]

I don't think most people understand how this is gonna play out over the summer, that's ALOT of water to remove to drop at least a foot. Erie is projected to drop ONE inch over the next month, this water is not going away in a week or a month, I won't be surprised If i don't see my dock above water the whole summer and she's not done peaking yet[emoji35].

 

 

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[Gill-T]

The water has no where to go as the water levrel behind the locks is high. Too late for this year.  They traditionally let it out over winter to drop lake levels. We are getting a good dose of what would happen if global warming rose sea levels. 

[Frogger]

The water has no where to go as the water levrel behind the locks is high. Too late for this year.  They traditionally let it out over winter to drop lake levels. We are getting a good dose of what would happen if global warming rose sea levels. 

Gill, I'd be interested in knowing if in fact they were at the winter levels for a typical year back in November December or were we higher than expected? Meaning did they let levels rise and when it was too late in March damage was already done?


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[Gill-T]

Based on Arney's marina owner's observations, he noted water was rising in December. I used my snowblower twice this year in Buffalo so I doubt the unusual rise in water was from snow pack melt. 

[GAMBLER]

Look at the graphs from the IJC website and the Army Corps website.  You can see how in late December the flows started to subside out of the Robert Moses Dam and the lake began to rise. 

 

Starting on 12/17/16 flows dropped. 

http://ijc.org/en_/islrbc/Lake_Ontario_Outflow_Changes

 

Look at this graph and you will see the lake begin to rise in Mid December. 

 

http://www.lre.usace.army.mil/Missions/Great-Lakes-Information/Great-Lakes-Water-Levels/Water-Level-Forecast/Monthly-Bulletin-of-Great-Lakes-Water-Levels/

 

 

[Bozeman Bob]

As far as snow pack melt, I would guess that 90 % of that comes directly from Lake Erie or Lake Ontario, lake effect snow is siphoned off the lakes, and most if it goes back to one of the lakes. Some is absorbed into the ground,some into the water table and some evaporated . We get very little snow from the "national" front.   Climate change is more BS than reality in my opinion. And if you believe it your either part of the problem , not solution. Your on here so you probably have a boat,a car a smart phone etc. All part of the problem and that includes anyone that breathes,bc your exhaling carbon monoxide, part of the alleged problem. So if you cared that much ,sell everything and check out, now your part of the "solution! !

Edited May 28, 2017 by Bozeman Bob

[Frogger]

So if the levels were rising starting in December and flows were reducing out of the dams, isnt this issue man induced? Not just the fact that we have had record precipitation? If in fact they have been letting water out since December as much as they could to keep up with levels than they have done all they could. I'm not seeing this though hence I just can't see why someone just can't find who's responsible and resolve it for future years. All I'm hearing is rain records, climate issues, and Mother Nature is at fault. I guess I just want to know.


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[Gill-T]

This is man-made. There are Lakes and impoundments all over the southern tier that artificially drop water levels in the fall to prepare for the increase water levels of spring. Lime Lake in Machias where I grew up fishing has a 2x6 at the outflow end of the lake that gets lifted in the fall. We had droughts in recent years past so this is the first year to truly show the effects. 

[GAMBLER]

11 minutes ago, Frogger said:

So if the levels were rising starting in December and flows were reducing out of the dams, isnt this issue man induced? Not just the fact that we have had record precipitation? If in fact they have been letting water out since December as much as they could to keep up with levels than they have done all they could. I'm not seeing this though hence I just can't see why someone just can't find who's responsible and resolve it for future years. All I'm hearing is rain records, climate issues, and Mother Nature is at fault. I guess I just want to know.


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At this point, The IJC might be on the hook after what I read on their Facebook page the other day.  The IJC was saying they did not want to up the flows because they would shut shipping down.  I understand shipping is a mutli million dollar business on the Great Lakes but holding back water and causing millions of dollars of damage opens you up to a butt load of trouble.  Also, the lake was brought up to the 2014 plan level early in the season and held there.  If the lake was at the historical average or 58D plan,  there would be less water in the lake from the start and less flooding now.  Tug Hill had huge amounts of snow pack, the upper Great Lakes were all above average.  We were on track to have good water even if we had a drought (see last seasons water levels).  We were in a severe drought and due to the higher water in the upper Great Lakes, Lake Ontario held just below the season forecast and lake level plan. 

Edited May 28, 2017 by GAMBLER

[Bozeman Bob]

Yes I agree it's a 100% man made fiasco  semi brought on my the environmentalists and there desire to keep the frogs propagating, mother nature has a way of evening things out over time,could of just left it the way it was.

[GAMBLER]

Just now, Bozeman Bob said:

Yes I agree it's a 100% man made fiasco  semi brought on my the environmentalists and there desire to keep the frogs propagating, mother nature has a way of evening things out over time,could of just left it the way it was.

I wonder what those environmentalists think of the partially treated sewage that is getting pumped directly to the lake due to the sewer systems being overwhelmed as a result of the lake levels?

[Bozeman Bob]

I thought I read on here that the sewage overflow may actually help the fishing food chain in some way. Nope the environmentalists can't see anything,the trees there hugging are blocking there view (of reality )

Edited May 28, 2017 by Bozeman Bob

[Xxx]

Well I know from years of snowmobiling the worst case senerio is a froze over lake, right? Guys trolling for Browns in February isn't exactly what I call froze over. My buddy has a camp on the Oswegotchi River on the paper mill property, they hunted only a few days, due to the amount of snow melting and water was running everywhere, eventually into the river which ultimately ending up in the ST. Lawrance. After that I heard from guys in the snow belt area had a great year, after Mother Nature decided to have winter, the ground is saturated now and all the snow is run off. I can't believe that the lake level wasn't high then. In February they could of started the process of letting water out?? Now here we are knee deep in caribou shyt. I don't know enough to talk the scientific lingo, but common sense goes along way in my book??  but what do I know??

[HB2]

A question I would like answered is , How much is every inch of water over the old limit worth as it translates to Hydro power ? And who owns that Dam ? 

With the years of disscusion & debate about a yes or no on 2114 , and what happened in 1973 , did the insurance co not have a say in this, like they do everything else. Don't buy for a minute that some back room deal was not  made between all parties .I would bet a 100 year average from year to year precipitation study was done and a calculated risk was made and the bill was passed.And as Kharma goes , it rained like hell. All this extra money spent and revenue lost is just a cost of doing buisness. They threw a few million at some ditches & trees in Bradocks and hide  behind that.  The water being piped to other states will be next. 

Hopefully Trump will do something about this last minute  Obama deal . Not for us but to piss off Cuomo and Shummer. 

[HB2]

And if this bill is not repealed or adjusted , you will know the fix is in. 

[GAMBLER]

5 minutes ago, HB2 said:

A question I would like answered is , How much is every inch of water over the old limit worth as it translates to Hydro power ? And who owns that Dam ? 

With the years of disscusion & debate about a yes or no on 2114 , and what happened in 1973 , did the insurance co not have a say in this, like they do everything else. Don't buy for a minute that some back room deal was not  made between all parties .I would bet a 100 year average from year to year precipitation study was done and a calculated risk was made and the bill was passed.And as Kharma goes , it rained like hell. All this extra money spent and revenue lost is just a cost of doing buisness. They threw a few million at some ditches & trees in Bradocks and hide  behind that.  The water being piped to other states will be next. 

Hopefully Trump will do something about this last minute  Obama deal . Not for us but to piss off Cuomo and Shummer. 

I would not be surprised if someone on the IJC board has a vested interest in shipping......

[battlehammer]

My parents live on the lake in Wilson. Last September the Army Corps did a shoreline survey and spoke to my parents about how great the sea wall is on there property and about how little erosion control most homeowners had. They had to know this was coming, other wise why the survey? Coincidence? ... Feds- not likely-the sea wall is starting to take big time damage now. Steel piling 18' down with - 6' tall 120' wide 5' deep concrete wall- backed by a 3' wall up the bank leading to grass. Cost my Grandfather a small fortune in the 70's , the last time water was high-The cost to fix this will be staggering. The power of water and waves is truly unreal! Second only to the stupidity and selfish agenda's of the federal Gov't.


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[HB2]

Anyone who had to shell out to protect and minimize the damage or have property loss not covered by insurance claims should make copies of their receipts and send them in lieu of their tax dollars. Water is over my seawall in the creek And my place is well above the water level but my heart goes out for some. 

Kind of hit home a few weeks back during a nor easter . Water was surrounding a summer home on Newco drive and a lady was watching her kids play in the water.She was  crying. 

 

Where do we sign up for the clash action lawsuit? 

 

Also , there is like 10% of guys fishing this year so far.Marinas closed etc, whats the economic impact of that.  I know of a few guys who are not putting their boats in this year. When we are fighting for money to sustain the fishery , how will this play ? 

 

 

Also , as I see it property values for some have gone down substantialy. And so has their tax levy. Some reassessment should be coming . But better watch out for that . If they claim eminaent domain , they can give you less for your property. 

 

 

What day are we going to Albany in force. Everyone bring a bucket of LO water and dump it over their representatives desk. Give them a taste of it. Just so they get the messeage.

[horsehunter]

You do realize That the Great lakes watershed consists of more than the south shore of Lake Ontario and it all has to go out through the Saunders Dam . Inland lakes and rivers are also at record levels . Water was flowing over the top of the locks on the Trent Severn System. People Who insist on building on the flood plain or filling wetlands to build are going to get flooded in abnormally wet springs.All dams are the result of man trying to control Mother Nature sometimes she wins.

Edited May 30, 2017 by horsehunter

[battlehammer]

You do realize That the Great lakes watershed consists of more than the south shore of Lake Ontario and it all has to go out through the Saunders Dam . Inland lakes and rivers are also at record levels . Water was flowing over the top of the locks on the Trent Severn System. People Who insist on building on the flood plain or filling wetlands to build are going to get flooded in abnormally wet springs.All dams are the result of man trying to control Mother Nature sometimes she wins.

I am well aware that there is a north shore, I'm just not hearing any outrage from the north. Our national propaganda news on all 3 networks have reported ZERO about this disaster. Still trying to protect someone's legacy instead of bringing attention to those who need help


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[horsehunter]

I'm not talking the north shore I'm talking the entire Great Lakes Water Shed how many million sq miles would you think that is.Under normal conditions the Niagara river dumps a million cubic feet af water per SECOND into Lake Ontario and these are not normal conditions. Our little local lake 1000 acres with a river flowing in and out eventually dumping into the Bay of Quinte where lower Belleville is flooded out. rose 4 inches since Sundays rain it's now raining again. The lake rose to normal spring levels started to recede nicely then rose 5 feet during a week of rain flooding the park and many homes. During the first 5 days of may it rained more than the monthly average.. March and April rainfall was more than double the average. I'm seeing 3 days of rain in the next week forecast..

 

WANA BUY AN ARK I NOAH GUY

[Lucky13]

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 2:07 PM, pap said:

Well I know from years of snowmobiling the worst case senerio is a froze over lake, right? Guys trolling for Browns in February isn't exactly what I call froze over. My buddy has a camp on the Oswegotchi River on the paper mill property, they hunted only a few days, due to the amount of snow melting and water was running everywhere, eventually into the river which ultimately ending up in the ST. Lawrance. After that I heard from guys in the snow belt area had a great year, after Mother Nature decided to have winter, the ground is saturated now and all the snow is run off. I can't believe that the lake level wasn't high then. In February they could of started the process of letting water out?? Now here we are knee deep in caribou shyt. I don't know enough to talk the scientific lingo, but common sense goes along way in my book??  but what do I know??

The board of control people, many of whom opposed 2014, have indicated that they were on track with 2016 levels into January, but they were unable to discharge at the normal winter rates in the St Lawrence due to lack of ice cover.  Once the STL gets locked up, they can let it rip under the ice, no shipping problems as there is no shipping in a frozen channel, and no shore impacts because the ice constrains the level of the water, and the velocity of the flow can increase under the ice just like in a pipe.   Without the ice cover, discharge had  to be throttled down to prevent shore erosion along the STL.  And then the rains, double the normal amount of water.   In a totally uncontrolled  system, no dam, no regulation, this kind of high water would occur once in a while, also the kind of low water that makes Braddock totally unnavigable.  AS to the Braddock project being related to 2014, it may have been harder to convince Region 5 EPA to put up the money if it was assured that 2014 would be enacted, as much of what was built in Braddock was designed to mimic the effects of more level variability without the variability involved in 2014.