IJC 2014 White House petition

[Frogger]

You do realize That the Great lakes watershed consists of more than the south shore of Lake Ontario and it all has to go out through the Saunders Dam . Inland lakes and rivers are also at record levels . Water was flowing over the top of the locks on the Trent Severn System. People Who insist on building on the flood plain or filling wetlands to build are going to get flooded in abnormally wet springs.All dams are the result of man trying to control Mother Nature sometimes she wins.

These are the comments that literally confuse the heck out of the true issue. I'm not arguing horse on your opinion but as I mentioned earlier is this a man made issue or a Mother Nature issue? There seems to be a tremendous argument about it being manmade. If this is truly the case, let's leave Mother Nature out of this because in the end it sounds like we still would not be in the predicament we're in if we would of managed it properly. It just confuses the true issue and becomes an attempt to remove accountability when we site record rainfall or lots of rain...... again I'm not arguing or trying to sway opinion. I just want to know is all. I feel really bad for all those impacted from this.


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[GAMBLER]

9 minutes ago, Frogger said:

These are the comments that literally confuse the heck out of the true issue. I'm not arguing horse on your opinion but as I mentioned earlier is this a man made issue or a Mother Nature issue? There seems to be a tremendous argument about it being manmade. If this is truly the case, let's leave Mother Nature out of this because in the end it sounds like we still would not be in the predicament we're in if we would of managed it properly. It just confuses the true issue and becomes an attempt to remove accountability when we site record rainfall or lots of rain...... again I'm not arguing or trying to sway opinion. I just want to know is all. I feel really bad for all those impacted from this.


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As soon as the 2014 plan was implemented, man takes all the blame.  Having a higher lake is reckless with homes built to the old plan levels. 

[Lucky13]

11 minutes ago, Frogger said:

These are the comments that literally confuse the heck out of the true issue. I'm not arguing horse on your opinion but as I mentioned earlier is this a man made issue or a Mother Nature issue? There seems to be a tremendous argument about it being manmade. If this is truly the case, let's leave Mother Nature out of this because in the end it sounds like we still would not be in the predicament we're in if we would of managed it properly. It just confuses the true issue and becomes an attempt to remove accountability when we site record rainfall or lots of rain...... again I'm not arguing or trying to sway opinion. I just want to know is all. I feel really bad for all those impacted from this.


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Where would you have put all that water?  Please also remember that while LO was 33" over normal average, Montreal was 55" over average.  Record rainfall does not confuse the issue, it clarifies it unless you absolutely have to place blame somewhere other than nature.  When you build a house on a floodplain, occasionally you have a floodplain on your house, but it usually requires an extraordinary amount of water, which is what we got in April and May.  It is also high in Erie, which is not controlled, and all the inland lakes that feed LO are high, no IJC or Board of Control there, although agencies like the Black River Regulatory District are definitely holding water anywhere that they have control, like in the Fulton Chain of Lakes. 

[battlehammer]

The problem occurred WAY before the record rains. As I stated earlier- the Army Corps knew this was coming in the early fall-Maybe not to this extent but they knew!!!This lake was as high as We've ever seen it in November and December. This was caused by morons who have their own agenda who have no right sticking their nose into things they know nothing about. To those with property damage- look into the bill cuomo signed- there is a number to call. My father just got off the phone with Albany- get yourself on the list to receive updates about how this will be progressing. The article I read on this stated that even some representatives with the IJC disagreed with the bill- politics politics politics!!!!!


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[fisherdude]

i lived on the seneca river . we would prepare  for the floods come spring . the canal system would make the water level ready for spring by keeping winter levels low . who knows what winter snow pack and spring rains will bring when spring comes and the water level rises . putting the water at high levels in the winter is not the thing to do to make ready for spring !!! As far as i am concerned its power , money and greed is making the rules not common sense...

Edited May 30, 2017 by fisherdude

[battlehammer]

It is when your agenda is tree huggers and more profit for the shipping industry. Hey Mr Shumer, remember the state your from? I know this has nothing to do with Russia or bringing down the standing president but we voted your dumb a$& in and we could use some help, you work for us pal , not the other way around.


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[battlehammer]

If you have damage due to high water call this number in Albany 518-474-2057. You will be put on a list and given some info. All further info will be provided to you as it comes along after. My father said that the women was very informative


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[Lucky13]

1 hour ago, battlehammer said:

The problem occurred WAY before the record rains. As I stated earlier- the Army Corps knew this was coming in the early fall-Maybe not to this extent but they knew!!!This lake was as high as We've ever seen it in November and December. This was caused by morons who have their own agenda who have no right sticking their nose into things they know nothing about. To those with property damage- look into the bill cuomo signed- there is a number to call. My father just got off the phone with Albany- get yourself on the list to receive updates about how this will be progressing. The article I read on this stated that even some representatives with the IJC disagreed with the bill- politics politics politics!!!!!


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http://w3.lre.usace.army.mil/hh/ForecastData/BulletinGraphics/MBOGLWL-ontario.pdf

 

Lake Ontario levels were slightly below the long term average from early June 2016 until mid December, when we started to get the precipitation.  As an example of water coming into the system, the Genesee River was above 2000 cfs for most of the winter, basically unfishable for the whole season with the exception of about 5 days.  Maybe these guys have a functioning crystal ball, if they knew what the weather would bring that far in advance.

 

http://w3.lre.usace.army.mil/hh/GreatLakesPrecipitation/GLP-ThisMonth.pdf

http://w3.lre.usace.army.mil/hh/GreatLakesPrecipitation/GLP-LastMonth.pdf

So far in May, LO has received nearly twice as much rain as the historic average, and had 155% of average in April. 

 

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/05/25/toronto-rainfall-breaks-record-set-in-1953.html

[battlehammer]

You don't need a crystal ball to know the entire Great Lakes watershed has a tendency to get a lot of snow and we have wet springs. Raising the water level was a mistake plain and simple- every structure along this lake was built with the idea of the lake being at a said level, changing that level could only lead to harm not good. I'm done with this topic- Do any of you gov't apologists actually live on the lake?


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[Frogger]

Lucky, would you happen to have the precipitation info for the months of Jan, feb from the army core? I don't think anyone is not saying both April and May were high rainfall months. At that time though the train had left the tracks. I'd be interested in seeing the precip in Jan matched the SLR /dams outflows to keep levels manageable. Unless I'm missing something.


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[GAMBLER]

http://w3.lre.usace.army.mil/hh/ForecastData/BulletinGraphics/MBOGLWL-ontario.pdf
 
Lake Ontario levels were slightly below the long term average from early June 2016 until mid December, when we started to get the precipitation.  As an example of water coming into the system, the Genesee River was above 2000 cfs for most of the winter, basically unfishable for the whole season with the exception of about 5 days.  Maybe these guys have a functioning crystal ball, if they knew what the weather would bring that far in advance.
 
http://w3.lre.usace.army.mil/hh/GreatLakesPrecipitation/GLP-ThisMonth.pdf
http://w3.lre.usace.army.mil/hh/GreatLakesPrecipitation/GLP-LastMonth.pdf
So far in May, LO has received nearly twice as much rain as the historic average, and had 155% of average in April. 
 
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/05/25/toronto-rainfall-breaks-record-set-in-1953.html

Sorry Lucky but you are wrong. On December 17th they started holding back water (6700 from 7200). They cut flows back even more on December 31st to 6100. It was not from precipitation it was to bring the lake up.


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[Silver Fox]

So this could be a record breaking 2 months of rain and we're about 30" high right? So if we had maybe a ho hum over average year, we'd be around 2' less? I don't think so. I'm with you Brian, we've seen well above average years many times before and NEVER had docks even remotely close to under water. Maybe 1 time in the 90's. It's political, Period.

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[GAMBLER]

It's funny that the dam outflows drop and the lake starts to climb just prior to the 2014 agreement.......


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[Silver Fox]

C'mon Brian, you know it's all coincidence...

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[Chas0218]

Myself , father in law, family friend and a few family members all own water front in the henderson area we are a little higher up on the banks but still close to the water. The area we have built (myself, father in law and neighbor friend) are not in the flood plain but we are still close to having water in our front yards. We have been lucky enough to have another foot before it starts to come over the bank or what bank is left. They are saying it's going up more, anyone with waterfront has to be nervous I was before now I am worried how much we will loose when we flood vs if we flood.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Chas0218

[horsehunter]

The rain in the past 3 days has caused our lake to rise 6 inches it wont do much to raise LO when it comes your way but there are thousands of lakes sending water your way.

[BigMac]

Good illustration of why they can't just let the water roll out of Lake Ontario.


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[Lucky13]

22 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

Sorry Lucky but you are wrong. On December 17th they started holding back water (6700 from 7200). They cut flows back even more on December 31st to 6100. It was not from precipitation it was to bring the lake up.


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If you look at the plots they were on the same track as in  Dec 2015, the lake starts going up in December every year on that plot. 

 

Dec long term average rainfall is 2.63", we got 2.91",  January is 2.41, we got 2.56, Feb is 1.95, we got 2.33. The starting stage in Mid December and stage through mid march are nearly identical to 2015.  But in March, long term average rainfall is 2.5", we got 4.67", April is 2.73, we got 4.95, and May is 2.87, we got 5.29.   Mid march is when they would have been letting the water go, but they had no ice to allow the higher discharges, and these are extraordinary rainfalls, and they had even higher rainfall over the area surrounding Montreal.   The averages and monthly totals are what was recorded on Weather underground for Rochester.

[HB2]

Of course they cant let the water out now , I don,t think anyone disputes that. Should have let it out Dec, Jan , to prepare for the anticipated waters that could come from thaw and springtime. It came up fast this winter. 

 

I figure the IJC is responsible for 6-8 " of this mess. 

[Gill-T]

I have not heard an accurate site specific reading up-lake yet.  The Olcott pier typically has a least 5' reveal to water level .........now the water is to the top.  Hard to find your way back to port!

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Yet another case of "enviros" who want to take mankind out of the equation. I've never seen so much passing the buck and throwing each other under the bus than I have with this issue. Mr free college, who has been a longtime supporter of the past administration(who of course gleefully signed on for the 2014 plan) is now throwing him under the bus. Even more evidence he is plotting a run and hopes to be a candidate in 2020.   

[Lucky13]

13 hours ago, Capt Vince Pierleoni said:

Yet another case of "enviros" who want to take mankind out of the equation. I've never seen so much passing the buck and throwing each other under the bus than I have with this issue. Mr free college, who has been a longtime supporter of the past administration(who of course gleefully signed on for the 2014 plan) is now throwing him under the bus. Even more evidence he is plotting a run and hopes to be a candidate in 2020.   

Was there really any reason to doubt that those were his true intentions?

[HB2]

I feel they will never admit any responsibility for this 2014 thing. Legal liability & lawsuits. 

[jimski2]

Not mentioned or considered is the rise in sea levels worldwide that is causing flooding in Montreal where the outflow of Lake Ontario is being restricted.


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[Silver Fox]

Not mentioned or considered is the rise in sea levels worldwide that is causing flooding in Montreal where the outflow of Lake Ontario is being restricted.


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Tell me your just being funny, right?

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