Sportsman ? Not so much

[Sk8man]

I'm with Brian on this. One important difference between this guy and the average guy on the street doing it is that by signing on for and getting his Captains license he is held to a different standard because in that the position he holds a degree of public trust and credentials of professionalism (as does say a teacher) and he violated both aspects.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Sk8man

[Xxx]

3 hours ago, GlassWater Outdoors said:

Plus his vids are laughable and gives us hours of laughter on our boat. Neutral  Black Forward Neutral back red back forward rod up rod down forward  .... for crying out loud it is a freaking lake trout that fights like a wet sock it isn't a white Marlin.  I have put 350 pound tuna on deck with a novice fisherman fighting the fish on stand up gear and did not need to perform the same amount of boat work that moron needs to net a 10 pound laker

 

OMG I was thinking the same thing the first time I watched one of his brown trout fishing video's. I thought right then and there I would of handed him the pole and sat down and ate my hoagie, to follow that many orders, and at the end of the netting ceremony, the client is so shell shocked that they can't even enjoy the moment!! Look at the size of this brown folks, just look at the size of this brown!! I can't tell you how many Browns have fallen to this Michigan spoon folks. Give the poor sole a break!! WTF!!

[fishmaster13184]

7 hours ago, dmd113 said:

So answer the question! Is any member subject to the wrath of LOU members or just the ones you pick? I gotta figure rallying the troops to attack sponsorship may have repercussions! I don't think the site should be put in that situation. If you want to run a Facebook campaign go for it! JMO

When that person is a business that breaks all the laws for profit I'd say yes, it's not personal, it's an attack on a poorly run business that poaches for profit. Everyone screws up in life and pays for it but when you're a guide and charter captain and you get caught poaching for profit you should expect everything you have coming 

Edited June 6, 2017 by fishmaster13184

[fisherdude]

when with a guide is the client responsibility also for taken illegal ducks . i would think the Dec would check for NYS hunting license ,federal waterfowl stamps , steel shot  and so on that the hunter is responsibility for. or this all fall on the guide. i am wondering if the client ask if hunting over a bait pile legal . what this guide has done is giving the sport a black eye ... 

[jimski2]

In Alaska king salmon catches are required to be logged on your permit upon removal from the water. Then your single line is put down and you ride the boat for the rest of the trip. Imagine if the same regulation was imposed here and how it would effect the charter boat industry. Some do Gooder will impose using bait for fishing and how will you like that. It is easy to enact regulations for "conservation" alleged purposes. Deer hunting is for control of deer populations, not antler points, yet we see attempts to add restrictions by "sportsmen" to add more restrictions to deer hunting. Our professional biologists , for their status, avoid giving their opinion on political views since it could lower license revenue sales, not wildlife considerations.


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

[hard knox]

the owner to a hunting camp next to my property got busted for hunting deer over a bait pile 100 dollar  fine what a joke no loss of license !

[BSmaster]

I saw the stand, then I saw the camera, then I saw the bait pile, then I saw the gut pile - All within a 30Yd diameter.  Later I heard the denial. 

 

[Chas0218]

10 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

1.  Food plots are legal. 

2.  Skippers are thrown back on my boat if injured only if they are not legal.  If they are short, they go back.  It is the law. 

3.  If a fish in my boat is not going to make it, it goes in the cooler.  There is always someone that I can find to take the meat (yes even lake trout).

4.  Guys that sell there catch, if done legally (commercial license and following the law) I have no problem with it. 

 

I have a problem with guys breaking fish and game laws.  It is bad for all of us.  This is just another slap on the wrist by a judge for game violations.  When is NY gonna step up and take fish and game violations seriously.  The state could make a fortune off of the illegal activities that go on in this state!  He deserves more than a slap on the wrist. 

I think that is what we are all arguing but dmd isn't understanding. He doesn't think it is right we slander his name but he already did that himself by committing the acts.

 

This isn't a political issue or something that is opinion based, there shouldn't be any defending a guy that blatantly broke the law for PROFIT. A DWI or similar charges have nothing to do with an outdoor site so why would you post that on here that doesn't make any sense. We are discussing a person (using that term loosely) that took people hunting and fishing that portrayed himself as a professional but really a shyster looking to take peoples money.

[dmd113]

1 hour ago, Chas0218 said:

I think that is what we are all arguing but dmd isn't understanding. He doesn't think it is right we slander his name but he already did that himself by committing the acts.

 

This isn't a political issue or something that is opinion based, there shouldn't be any defending a guy that blatantly broke the law for PROFIT. A DWI or similar charges have nothing to do with an outdoor site so why would you post that on here that doesn't make any sense. We are discussing a person (using that term loosely) that took people hunting and fishing that portrayed himself as a professional but really a shyster looking to take peoples money.

So it matters what kind of criminal act is committed? It's convenient & dangerous to use your own personal biases to decide an offenders punishment. My point still is that the law should handle it. YOU fail to understand that using this mind set We should encourage LOU members to show up at your workplace with signs urging the employer to fire any member who is arrested. If you want tougher laws, take steps to make sure it happens. It's far too easy to sit behind a computer & call for blood.JMO

Edited June 6, 2017 by dmd113

[dmd113]

5 hours ago, fishmaster13184 said:

When that person is a business that breaks all the laws for profit I'd say yes, it's not personal, it's an attack on a poorly run business that poaches for profit. Everyone screws up in life and pays for it but when you're a guide and charter captain and you get caught poaching for profit you should expect everything you have coming 

If you read comments made by the posters mocking videos & outdoor shows done by this company, you would see that there is was no "love" for these guys prior to the offense!  You are correct. Everyone screws up once in life. He will take whatever punishment that is handed out. No one has addressed my original question about skippers. I know they are undersized & must go back even if dead. But for a charter to continue to troll through them , killing multiple undersized fish,to pick up an occasional keeper to put in the "cooler" Is this not done for $?  The answer will be "It's not illegal " Great we use the laws on the books! Then we should also abide by the penalties imposed on the people who break those laws!

[bandrus1]

4 minutes ago, dmd113 said:

If you read comments made by the posters mocking videos & outdoor shows done by this company, you would see that there is was no "love" for these guys prior to the offense!  You are correct. Everyone screws up once in life. He will take whatever punishment that is handed out. No one has addressed my original question about skippers. I know they are undersized & must go back even if dead. But for a charter to continue to troll through them , killing multiple undersized fish,to pick up an occasional keeper to put in the "cooler" Is this not done for $?  The answer will be "It's not illegal " Great we use the laws on the books! Then we should also abide by the penalties imposed on the people who break those laws!

This is some of the most circular logic I have ever read. Sorry man not the same... also this was not a one time thing. Did you read the article? Installed underwater feeding systems.. this isn't dump a 50lb bag. This sounded like a fabricated feeding system, used for how long?

Edited June 6, 2017 by bandrus1

[Silver Fox]

Please, someone just say "Uncle"!

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[Chas0218]

20 minutes ago, dmd113 said:

So it matters what kind of criminal act is committed? It's convenient & dangerous to use your own personal biases to decide an offenders punishment. My point still is that the law should handle it. YOU fail to understand that using this mind set We should encourage LOU members to show up at your workplace with signs urging the employer to fire any member who is arrested. If you want tougher laws, take steps to make sure it happens. It's far too easy to sit behind a computer & call for blood.JMO

Once again no one is bringing up any other arrests Bill Saiff might have had only the ones that apply to what the site's interests. Last I checked he didn't work here on the site or own this site so how would we be at his business picketing like you mentioned. I'm not condoning anyone approaching him at his home or business and verbally assaulting the individual. He ran a business that procured profits by cheating the system and got caught. He shouldn't be able to profit anymore from the acts he is charged for. I am a school teacher and if I got charged with a DWI my job would in jeopardy. I act as a role model to my students as most of the charters out there do the same for the weekend warrior. Why shouldn't he loose his "job" like any other professional would. 

[Chas0218]

3 minutes ago, Silver Fox said:

Please, someone just say "Uncle"!

Lake Ontario salmon fishing charters
 

Uncle, I think sums it up.

[dmd113]

Not circular logic. 1) He broke the law? 2) He was arrested or ticketed. 3) He was punished. The outrage is that he was a licensed & trusted member of the outdoor community? If this is the case,why has no one started a campaign on LOU to run down Charter Captains who were DQ'd from tournaments?  I see that posters didn't care for the guy before this happened. If this was someone that they liked the cry might not be as loud. JMO

[Skidplate]

Nope keep going and use his name more so it will show up on Google

 

Bill Saiff outdoors

[Chas0218]

4 minutes ago, dmd113 said:

Not circular logic. 1) He broke the law? 2) He was arrested or ticketed. 3) He was punished. The outrage is that he was a licensed & trusted member of the outdoor community? If this is the case,why has no one started a campaign on LOU to run down Charter Captains who were DQ'd from tournaments?  I see that posters didn't care for the guy before this happened. If this was someone that they liked the cry might not be as loud. JMO

Right many didn't care for him but how many publicly bashed him? No one! DQ's in tournaments can be for a number of reasons other than cheating.

[dmd113]

DQ'd for cheating & can no longer participate! Don't matter. The bashing hasn't been limited to his offense. It clearly is personal to a few who fish that end of the lake. But I know karma has a habit of biting one in the backside. So have at it.

[BSmaster]

Be careful falling from Ivory Towers...

 

As humans we generalize and this goes for any group of people.  Its why many professions need to be wary of bad individuals within their demographic.  The same logic can be applied to this story.  There are do-gooders out there who are strong PETA trolls or just tree hugging animal loving anti hunting people wanting to destroy that which this community is passionate about.  I think the antisentiment is justified.  If a person of anonymity did this we probably would complain about it but to a lesser extent.  Most likely it infuriates us that a self proclaimed ambassador to the outdoors is a cheater and now his arrest is fodder for the anti hunting establishment.  Arguing over the finer points is irrellevant.  If the man deserves respect from this community than he should have given respect to the laws.  Whether you agree with it or not or even want to it to be true he is a representation of what we do in the eyes of those looking in from the outside. 

 

So in my opinion all the negativity is fine in this instance.  I don't know him as an individual and I don't know how I will feel about it if I ever do.  I have fallen victim to the one sided opinions of others in the past and I try to avoid it whenever possible.  But, with that said, he has to account for what he did and part of that is public ridicule.  Some will be more ridiculous than others.  So be it.  Can't do the time - don't do the crime.

[GlassWater Outdoors]

19 minutes ago, BSmaster said:

Be careful falling from Ivory Towers...

 

As humans we generalize and this goes for any group of people.  Its why many professions need to be wary of bad individuals within their demographic.  The same logic can be applied to this story.  There are do-gooders out there who are strong PETA trolls or just tree hugging animal loving anti hunting people wanting to destroy that which this community is passionate about.  I think the antisentiment is justified.  If a person of anonymity did this we probably would complain about it but to a lesser extent.  Most likely it infuriates us that a self proclaimed ambassador to the outdoors is a cheater and now his arrest is fodder for the anti hunting establishment.  Arguing over the finer points is irrellevant.  If the man deserves respect from this community than he should have given respect to the laws.  Whether you agree with it or not or even want to it to be true he is a representation of what we do in the eyes of those looking in from the outside. 

 

So in my opinion all the negativity is fine in this instance.  I don't know him as an individual and I don't know how I will feel about it if I ever do.  I have fallen victim to the one sided opinions of others in the past and I try to avoid it whenever possible.  But, with that said, he has to account for what he did and part of that is public ridicule.  Some will be more ridiculous than others.  So be it.  Can't do the time - don't do the crime.

Perfectly said. Thank you

[ontherise]

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[GlassWater Outdoors]

Dmd Like I said it is nothing personal at all. I don't fish anywhere near that end of the lake , I have never met him nor do I care to. I am an avid duck hunter as well as a waterfowl guide. I do absolutely everything by the book and I would expect my peers to do the same. 

[dmd113]

1 hour ago, GlassWater Outdoors said:

Dmd Like I said it is nothing personal at all. I don't fish anywhere near that end of the lake , I have never met him nor do I care to. I am an avid duck hunter as well as a waterfowl guide. I do absolutely everything by the book and I would expect my peers to do the same. 

Like I stated, I never met the guy. I have watched some of his  you tube videos, but I have also watched dozens of videos put on by various other charter captains & posted Tournament videos. I'm all for punishing anyone who is caught breaking laws. As an individual I respect those who deserve it! I have seen many practices & behaviors on the water I don't agree with. I don't come on an open forum to publicize this to"hurt his business" or "cost them sponsors". To attack someone on an open forum only gives more ammo to the anti outdoor lobbyists. I don't make a dime off fishing or hunting  but spend 1000's on boat upkeep,fishing/hunting gear & supplies. I'm smart enough to make my own decisions & do my own research when choosing or recommending an outfitter. So I only recommend or give my opinions on products & people I have personally dealt with. I would bet a finger some of the people who have attacked this guy, have in some way at sometime bent the rules or done something questionable according to the law. JMO

Edited June 6, 2017 by dmd113

[Silver Fox]

This story was put out publicly. Whether it was the news or social media, it's fair game.
If you gonna do something fishy, better not get caught and put out publicly. That's the difference in this issue and jamming a skipper in the bilge. Lol

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[dmd113]

YOU'RE RIGHT HE GOT CAUGHT!