Legally entered fish for the LOC??

[waterlogged]

Boy am I going to get bashed for this one!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

The LOC begins 08/15/08 right? So that means at 12:01 a.m. or 0001 hrs. military time?

So if you hook a fish at 11:50 p.m. on 08/14/08 and you net it and it is in the boat at 12:05 a.m. that fish is leagl to be registered for 08/15/08?

OR

You hook the fish at 12:05 a.m. 08/15/08 and in the net and boat at 12:20a.m. 08/15/08 is a leagal fish to be entered of course at 9:00 a.m. when the weigh stations can legally weigh a derby fish???

Have at it gang!!!

[Mike Plotner]

Gonna have to go with B on this on has to be hooked after 12:00 . otherwise I hook one at 9:30 pm and let it float on the hook for 2:31 minutes and net it at 12:01 am doesnt make it legal

[ray koziatek]

so mike your saying the one ive been draging for the last 3 days wont count? never mind just checked the line and nothing left but the lips.

[ERABBIT]

Any lines in the water before 0001hrs. that hooks a fish would NOT be a legal no matter what time the fish hit and was landed.

[Fishtails]

On a different question about the rules, I was curious about a scenario and I find nothing in the rules addressing it.

Does one fisherman have to handle the rod with the loc fish on it the entire time, or can it be handed off to another fisherman anytime during the fight? I'm curious only because I will be fishing with a lessor experienced friend or two and I will want to net the fish to minimize troubles at the boat. If I were to be on the rod, could I hand it off to a buddy in order to net the fish? Maybe I should call Dave on this for clarification.

I'd hate to find that's not legal after the fact.

[rustyrat]

Yes you can pass off the rod. I'm not sure whos name you register under though. Its either the person who did the majority of the fight or the the person on the rod when netted. I'm sure someone here knows who to register the fish under.

RR

[Mike Plotner]

I'll have to go with the rabbit on that one. Ray try to get one to swallow your cannonball BEFORE you net it that should get you on the board .Is that legal????

[ray koziatek]

Rod ,listen if you keep whimping out just stay on the wheel and let your crew take care of catching fish ,now do you know why they refer to you as two rods,it ant because of your ...........well you know......so keep both hands on the wheel and leave your rod alone.

[chinook]

I have to go with Rabbit on this as well. Clark I just simply wanted the cutoff moved back and you come up with this As far as passing off the rod, I question what Scott said on that however. Reason being I know for a fact 2 years ago there was a decent king landed and weighed in, which would have ended up in the top 5 for the entire derby. Weigh station will remian unnamed. The weigh station master asked the father on three different occasions who caught the king? Response was- not exactly but close" The kid fought it, got tired so I brought it in and landed it. Again was asked who landed it and same response, the third time asked-same response-so the weigh station master said not a valid king for passing off the rod. This is 1000% true. So what is the deal here?

[rustyrat]

Dave addressed this in one of the old threads but I can't find it. Thats where I got my info from him. It makes a difference on who's name you register it under. I'll look again.

RR

[chinook]

Thanks Scott, I'm just letting all know what happened in this regard. Best of luck in the LOC-Duane

[rustyrat]

I shot off an e mail to Dave about the passing the rod thingy. When i hear from him, I'll post back on a new thread. I wouldn't want anyone here getting penalized for wrong info.

RR

[waterlogged]

The year we won the $1000/day derby that we didn't get our money for it was a team effort as the 29# 9 oz. king threw fits in and out of the wire and rigger cables. At one time all 3 of us - Smitty, Kevin and I handled the rod with Smitty doing the bulk of the work adn Kevin netting the fish. We inquired of Dave if this was a fish that would have made top 20 if it was a legal entry and he said yes because all on the boat are/(must be) registered and it is a "team" thingy (as Scott so eloquently put it) not an individual thingy.

So unless the tides have turned I guess it's a legal fish to enter. Only faIr that the guy who did the majority of the get the kudos FOR THE ENTRY as was Smitty's case. Kevin and I merely wove the rod around and through and over the wire and downrigger cables.

[traveling man]

We talked to Dave about this at the spring derby. you can pass the rod off. The person that lands the fish weighs the fish. We had 2 derby fish landed by the same person (spoonfed). Dave thanked us for our honest and said he should have hand the rod off. Then he made a joke about the net person is really the person that "lands" the fish.

[Fishtails]

I'd really like to know how critical of a point it is as to who would weigh the fish....seems kinda irrelevant to me, but if it's an unwritten rule I would like to know about it before the fact.

Duane, I recall the story your speaking about. I thought the difference was that they entered the fish under the child's name in the youth division. The child needs to land that fish....not the adult. Maybe I'm wrong, but I recall the story as the child was said to have landed the fish, then after questioning the child admitted that dad had helped...thus the dq.

[chinook]

Rod, I do remember the very story you are talking about. But this was an entirely different happening all together. Not to many years ago, as you probably remember, there were a number of DQ's there for a few days, for whatever reason. The event I speak of never made it to that stage of even being DQ'd. The station didn't even enter it. However -speaking of winnings and such- this is how I set it up on my boat with all knowing up front what is expected. We take turns at the rod, not so much as landing a target but once a solid hook up occurs and if you drop it after a solid minute, that was your turn. To bad. So sad. Better luck next time. Any target landed no matter the size counts as your turn.Even the skippys. This keeps one individual from dominating the rods. It is in fact a team effort as stated by Clarke, couldn't agree more. Thus is why the payout structure is this on the H.B. Based on a 3 man crew- Anything under $500.00 the person landing the target takes 100% Anything over that amount- the person landing the target takes 70%-Boat 10% and the remaining 2 crew members get 10% as well. This has worked extremely well over the years and all know up front so there is no hard feelings of "after the fact" Let's face it here, we are fishing for some serious cash. Friendships have been ruined by not having a plan in place. This I have found is about as fair a plan I've implimented along the way. Rod, best of luck to you in the L.O.C. Hope to see your name near the top of the leader board. ( under mine of course)

[Fishtails]

Thanks Duane....very fair system you have in place...I like it!

I only brought up the netting issue cause I'm a net hog :shock: . I am....I admit it. I hate to see a big fish swim away in a tournament or derby cause of a botched netting attempt and I've seen it happen too many times.....I guess we all have. I know a good friend and fishing buddy of mine thinks I don't trust him on the net, cause I always net the bigger fish during the Pro Ams, but it's not that I don't trust others as much as I do trust myself.

That being said, I'll be fishing the loc with a buddy who hasn't Salmon fished in years.....I'd be freaking nervous wreck with a 35lber on the line and him on the net stabbing at it like it was a bass, getting the hook caught in the netting while it hangs on the hoop half in and half out, just before it rolls back and floats off belly up....but alas it gets revived and takes off just seconds before you reach it after your sharp turn that tangles every line you have in the water. During the sharp turn the thumper drops to the bottom and gets snagged. It's now burning out wire and to make things even worse it's also wrapped around the probe rigger cable. Then snap....everything goes silent and I have this look on my face... :shock:

$400 dollars of lost equipment later I'm kicking myself for not netting the fish :x

I didn't make that up....I had that exact chain of events happen to me last year. Now I'm a net hog BTW... have you taken notice how everyone likes to share on the winnings, but nobody wants to share on the losings.

Anyways....Best of luck to you as well Duane. This time I'm checking tickets and making sure everyone on the boat is entered so we don't have a replay of the summer loc on Lucky Enuff. Enjoy and be safe!

Good luck to all & see ya on the leader board.

[Gene Shenk]

On my boat not that I have had to worry about it yet!!! We would split it evenly among the people on board and if it is more than $100 a piece the boat gets a share as well for upgrades or tackle. Man I hope I have to sit down and figure out who gets what from a nice check!! But in all honesty if I could just see my boat name on the board for a day that would be great and make all this worth wild.

[chinook]

Rod, have to admit that I laughed when reading your follow up. I'm pretty much the same as you esp. when I see we have a large target hooked up. I have a good friend who has fished with me many years and still wants to net from the tail instead of head first. Takes a number of attempts before it is boated on occasion. I'll let him net the smaller silvers, but like you, when we are into a big guy. I'll take the responsibility of netting please. Which leads me to mention, and it was broached upon on another thread. When we are hooked into a major, that at the time I feel is going to be a possible money fish, we at least totally clear one side of the boat. Starting with the longest junk lines and working in. And if need be, starting on the second side as well. It requires a little more work and yes you may not hook into a double up, but I believe this increases one's odds in putting that target in the boat. As Clarke mentioned about working and weaving around the rigger cables as an example. These lines as well are pulled in due time, if need be. Best king we ever boated ( 38-9) dang near spooled us. Actually had to turn, give chase, to retrieve line. Again, team effort to land that king. Rod- need to convey a short story about netting- a couple years ago during the L.O.C. we were fishing off the flats at the Oak. Hooked into a real decent king and let the young one ( 12) on board fight this king. Hoping to put in on the board for youth. Needless to say this king was pushing 30#. So I went to net the king, king totally in the net, brought it up hand over hand, with bag below handle, etc. At that point, the dang hoop literally pulled out of the handle( yes it was pinned in place to begin) rivets gave way- and the hoop along with the king, slowly floated on top of the water for about 10 seconds before slowly starting to sink. I know that king would have taken top honors that year for the youth, for it ( the youth winner) was around 24 I believe. And literally seeing that king up close and personal, I know the app. weight of the " one that got away" Sad feeling at the time esp. for the boy. But now, looking back is kind of funny. So I feel your pain. But that is what makes this fishing, the challenge of various aspects such as this. But don't you just relish every minute of it? Nothing better- well maybe not quite Irregardless, be safe as well and to all- as mentioned. If you're at the Oak, give me a call sometime. -Duane- HeavenBound- P.S...Gene- keep the faith and fish with confidence. It will happen to you. Remember the time back probably 20 years ago, spring ESLO, a guy won the derby out of a 14' flat lining a J-11 Rapala. So you never know. This was in the days of Cash Bash, Kidney fund, boat and trailer package etc. Needless to say he moved up in boat size.

[CBish]

Don't forget when derby fishing -- If a guy has 3 fish in the box already do not let him land another fish 'cause if it is a derby fish it cannot be entered.

CC

[TOP SECRET]

It's funny to hear how everyone treats things different... make sure you work it out before fishing together no matter what!

On my boat... anyone can grab the rod, reel down to the fish, but then they need to hand it off to whoever's turn it is. Then that person has to fight the fish to the very end, no hand offs. Any winnings get split by all of those on the boat EQUALLY. I don't agree with the boat getting a share part... . The way I figure it, most people I fish with have their own boat. We could have just as likely been fishing with their boat that weekend... they have slip, fuel, and tackle costs just like I do. If they don't have a boat, well the story still sticks. I'm just giving you guys a hard time, but seriously... don't take away from the experience... decide before hand to split everything equally and it will make the prize that more gratifying for everyone! Fuel, tackle, dockage, those are all costs most of us sign up for at the beginning of the year. Now charters, I can understand if they do things differently, they're a business after all. But when Recs start taking shares for their boats... I just feel like it takes a piece of fun out of it.

Nick

[chinook]

Hey Nick, I can almost assure you that I'm probably one of the most unselfish individuals that you would ever meet.Not saying this to gloat- but I won't say how much I've donated to different pen rearing projects across the southern shore of Lake Ontario. Let alone the monies I put into various youth sports of my local area, being not only team sponsor, team manager, League VP, plus setting on the board of directors, and lastly tournament director this year for 4 out of the 5 tourneys that we held this year. So I say this, to say that making the suggestion that the boat gets 10% is not being selfish I.M.O. one bit. As a matter of fact, when I take a new crew and explain my suggested prize payout structure most figured it ( 10%) would be higher than that, due to various aspects. Such as tackle usage, wear and tear plus possible loss of. Many make the comment that they simply couldn't fish had the mode of transportation( boat) not been available to them. As far as splitting it evenly, if that is the case, who pays the taxes on the winnings? At even split as you suggest, the guy who takes 20K splits it evenly, then takes a bath come tax time. That is why I suggest 70%- 10-10-10- This is just my opinion, but for someone who provides all the means for others to derby fish, and hit with a derby fish that could win thousands, a small % is not to much to ask I feel.

[rustyrat]

Everyone on my boat gets a full cut after taxes over 300 bucks. Simple.

Its luck of the draw who's on the rod.

RR

[GAMBLER]

Everyone on my boat gets a full cut after taxes over 300 bucks. Simple.

Its luck of the draw who's on the rod.

RR

I use the same system as you Rustyrat.

[TOP SECRET]

Hey Nick, I can almost assure you that I'm probably one of the most unselfish individuals that you would ever meet.Not saying this to gloat- but I won't say how much I've donated to different pen rearing projects across the southern shore of Lake Ontario. Let alone the monies I put into various youth sports of my local area, being not only team sponsor, team manager, League VP, plus setting on the board of directors, and lastly tournament director this year for 4 out of the 5 tourneys that we held this year. So I say this, to say that making the suggestion that the boat gets 10% is not being selfish I.M.O. one bit. As a matter of fact, when I take a new crew and explain my suggested prize payout structure most figured it ( 10%) would be higher than that, due to various aspects. Such as tackle usage, wear and tear plus possible loss of. Many make the comment that they simply couldn't fish had the mode of transportation( boat) not been available to them. As far as splitting it evenly, if that is the case, who pays the taxes on the winnings? At even split as you suggest, the guy who takes 20K splits it evenly, then takes a bath come tax time. That is why I suggest 70%- 10-10-10- This is just my opinion, but for someone who provides all the means for others to derby fish, and hit with a derby fish that could win thousands, a small % is not to much to ask I feel.

Sorry Chin didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, just my opinion. Taxes would have to be split evenly as well. When you take people out normally, do you charge them for tackle and boat usage? If not, why would it be any different because they caught a big fish and won some money? To each their own, and if I ever have the priveldge to fish on your boat I would surely follow your rules if that was what you told me, but I just don't see things the same way. If I start charging my good friends who I have the priveledge to fish with because they were lucky enough to catch a big fish. then I might as well sign up for my captain's license and become a charter.

Again this is all just my personal opinion and everyone is entitled to do what they want on their own boat.

Nick