big fish question

[wolfman]

Our fishing team this year entered our first derby, it was the fall LOC. We caught a 31.14 pound king and it got us a 10th place finish. We were 11th but for whatever reason we ended up 10th. Anyway, after we caught it, we fished another hour or so. Was that bad? We filled the cooler with water and by the time we got it to a scale it was about an hour and a half later. We didn't think it was as big as it was so we kept fishing. People tell me that a fish looses weight after it is caught. Is that true and if it is how much and how fast.

[Billy V]

This year, Yankee Troller and I had a Summer LOC King that we took in to get weighed right after we caught it. We weighed it in at like 8:15am. Right after we weighed it in, the weighmaster realized that we couldn't weigh it in officially until 9:00am, so we had to wait 45 mins before we could weigh it again. When we weighed it at 9am, it had lost 2 ounces. The fish sat for 45 minutes in a cooler full of cold water and it lost 2 ounces in that short amount of time. I couldn't believe that it lost that much weight in that amount of time. So yeah, waiting to come in probably cost you an ounce or two!

[Lucky Enuff]

I've been through this a few times myself. Bill's observation is a valuable one cause they used the same certified scale 45 min. apart....so there is your answer!

I had to make the decision to run or fish several times this past season. Every time, I decided to keep fishing. The fish loose weight over the first couple hours...then they level out. They don't just continue to shrink. We had a king we weighed for the summer derby that was 29.7 on the scale a few hours after we caught it. We then took it to another tourney we fished that day for weigh in and then returned it to the loc station to hand it over. It again weighed the same 29.7 (1.5hrs later) We had two this season that were close to being top 20, but didn't bother entering them. With the price of gas, It's not worth it for $25 and that's really something that needs improvement on in the loc. If it's not going to make at least top 10, I won't even bother.

There are a lot of factors for your team to consider when deciding to stop fishing and run in to have one weighed. First off, The prize structure in the loc doesn't make it worth while unless your in the top 3-4. For the summer loc, if it won't make top two, forget about it. You can determine that with a good scale and a phone call on the boat. If it might be close to the top few...GO! If not, enjoy the fishing and weigh it when you get in. If it won't make any difference in the $$ placement,why not continue to enjoy the reason your out there in the first place....to fish!!

Just my .02, and congrats on the nice fish!

Rod

Team Lucky Enuff

[Paul Czarnecki]

I've heard these discussions before but no one ever comes up with a reason for the mysterious loss of weight. Unless the fish is bleeding, regurgitating or pooping THERE IS NO WAY it can lose weight. Period.

I've been a taxidermist for 28 years and a charter captain for 25. I have heard all of the stories about how the fish weighed more on the boat than it did at the scale and all of the speculation as to why "it lost weight". The fact of the matter is, unless it is doing one of the above, it WILL NOT lose weight.

In Billy's case, I'm guessing the weight loss was due to one of these factors.

You can speculate all day long if it is worth the run in for a derby fish. If you minimize handling to prevent bleeding and pooping and keep the fish cold you are doing all that you can do. Of course, if you miss the magic weight by one ounce you can blame me ...LOL.

Great fish Wolfman!

[Billy V]

I have no idea why the fish lost weight in our case. I wasn't sitting there watching the fish for the entire 45 minutes we waited though, so something had to happen to cause it to lose weight....probably a combination what Paul mentioned....they will lose weight if one of those things occur. I don't believe that they just shrink after they die though.

[Gray Fox]

We place a king last year in the spring derby. We ran into Wilson to have the fish weighed. Just like BillyV however we would have to wait almost an hour for an official weight, so we weighed the fish to make sure that it was worth waiting and that our scale was close. After the first weight the fish was in second place. After the hour wait the fish had already fallen a spot. While talking to Wes at the Slippery Sinker later that day he told us never to weigh a fish or even pick it up until ready for the scale. As many of you have seen after a fish is in the cooler for a while they get a slime layer and when you pick the fish up many times you can watch it drip off. He told us that the difference in the wieght was most likely because the first weight was with the slime layer adn the second was without. Not sure if thats true but it made sense that the fish lost a couple of ounces from losing all the slime.

[traveling man]

if you are going to weigh a fish don't take it out of the cooler until you are right next to the scale. 2 fluid ounces of water is 1/8 of a pound or 2oz by weight. If you take your fish out of the cooler then walk 50 feet and place it on a scale you have lost a lot of water weight.

[momay4000]

Paul et al,

With all do respect, a fish, or any mammal for that matter will lose a small portion of body weight initially when they die. As a physician, I have also seen many dead human bodies, and certainly there is also some initial weight loss at the time of death from loss of various fluids. Any time the heart stops, there is no longer any blood circulation, and consequently there is death of tissue. Fluids can seep through any membranous surface (skin, gills, membranes of the GI tract etc.). Typically there is also regurgitation of stomach contents and an involuntary response of the gut to rid itself of any fecal material. Certainly, some tissues of the body upon death also retain fluid (the brain) but typically the net loss of fluids outweighs the gains. Although the net loss is probably only an ounce or two, it is still significant. Think about it - we all have that "nasty" water - i.e. a slurry of pooh, stomach contents, blood, etc - in the bottom of our coolers at the end of the day and it has to come from somewhere.

So I do not mean to be disrespectful, but there is certainly some element of weight loss as a consequence of different fluid losses from the fish when it's dying and stressed or dead.

- Chris, MD

[ray koziatek]

Ive found fish pee in my cooler too.now i know why it there...........hey wait a minute thats the cooler musky sits on in my boat me and him are gonna talk

[Lucky Enuff]

I too believe in this Chris, the effects of death and dehydration always reduces total body weight, reguardless of the type of living creature.

[Paul Czarnecki]

Chris, that's exactly what I was saying. In order for a fish, or any creature, to lose weight after death it must lose either blood, stomach or intestinal contents. A fish sitting in a cooler of ice water is not going to dehydrate---at least not enough to notice on a less-than-perfect derby scale. So we all agree then.....keep your derby fish from bleeding, puking and pooping and your chances of cashing a check will be better.

Glad we cleared that up...LOL.

[momay4000]

Paul,

Again, with all due respect, a fish CAN lose weight from other means other than from the stomach, GI tract, and bleeding and this can happen when a fish is sitting in water or a cooler.

Believe it or not, in the first few hours after a fish dies it can actually GAIN weight (as long as there isn't any loss of stomach contents, blood, etc.) because the skin becomes permeable to water and small amounts of water enter the tissues and the fish swells a bit (the slime layer forms at this time and is a consequence of this process). Immediately after death, however, a process called "autolysis" occurs where the tissue starts to break down by the body's own digestive process. Once this occurs, the fluids no longer are going into the fish, but now permeate through the skin in the other direction and the fish "dehydrates" and loses weight. This occurs whether or not the fish is sitting in a bath of ice water or not.

You're right - the majority of the weight loss we see is probably more from the loss of blood, vomit and poop, but eventually fluid can also travel through the skin and out. Does all of this really make a difference? Who knows...

- Chris

[ray koziatek]

i feel like im reading post on another site,ive found after i bleed em ,gut and gill them they weigh less than one i first caught them i think its due to the fact that i removed parts in fact the fillets weigh even less after i remove the skin and thats where the slime is so the slime might be heavier than you guys think. hope this helps

[Paul Czarnecki]

You're absolutely right Chris and thanks for the refresher on scientific terminology. I haven't heard the term "autolysis" since my Human Anatomy and Medical Terminology Courses in college.

Unfortunately, we are arguing semantics here. The question asked was will a fish lose a significant amount of weight lying in a cooler? We both agree that a fish can and will lose weight through defecation, regurgitation or blood loss. However, to say autolysis will even enter the picture on a 31 pound fish laying in a cooler for several hours simply clouds the issue (and your answer). I'm quite sure that the amount of weight lost through autolysis in the above situation would be so insignificant that it is hardly worth mentioning. Most scales can't even measure tenths of an ounce.

But, nonetheless, thanks for mentioning it and thanks again for the refresher.

/

[LongLine]

In reality a fish immediately gains weight in direct proportion to the time after it's initial contact with a fisherman. Something to do with adrenalin.

For all you skeptics out there that don't believe it, 2 weeks ago I had a 19 Lb'r rip off 400 Yds of line & probably kept going all the way to Canada. Just wait till January when I tell you that it was a 30 Lb'r and Skeine'r caught it in November with my lure still in its jaw.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[ray koziatek]

Your right tom ,once a fish gets off at the back of the boat they gain 5 to 10 lbs....

[FISHIN AGAIN?]

Hey Wolfman if it makes ya feel any better we caught the 11th place fish that was tied with yours but we caught it on the last day. When we go out we never keep any so we just fish with no cooler. We got our fish and ran straight in but it was close to an hour b4 we got it weighed. I stopped and grabbed a bag of ice but I wonder how much it lost while sitting in the bottom of the boat with no cooler. This was my first derby money fish also. Congrats on making the board. Maybe next year there will be a lil more money and we will have a cooler with lots of ice.

[ray koziatek]

Most uf us with the smaller boats hurt for space for that big cooler .after tripping over it for a few trips and no big fish you leave it in the truck. Thats when you get the keeper .......i keep (try to) a box of contractor grade large trash bags in the boat toss in a cup of water ,or some ice and the fish .Atleast youll keep the evaporation at a min. Just dont torpedo the fish in the bag or it will act like a squeegie as the fish passes out the bottom.

[LevelGreener]

more scientific possibilities....there may be a change in osmotic pressure after death that will account for some loss of fluids.

Fresh water fish pee all the time and salt water fish drink all the time. It's a matter of equalibrium or maintaining fluids equal to the surrounding environment...

[ray koziatek]

then we need to put a clamp on there thingy after we catch them.

[Gill-T]

Simple chemistry. Ions flow from an area of greater concentration to an area of less. All freshwater organisms fight to keep their "stuff" in and water out. I don't know how the ion flux would effect weight of a fish over time, but our top Sodus pro/am steelhead weighed over 14 lbs in the boat, only to drop to 13.88 lbs at weigh-in approx. four hours later.

[LongLine]

TIP of the DAY: :idea:

Catch a Big Fish & worried about weight loss before you get it weighed in? Simple. Attach the Rig'r cable to its mouth then run back to the weigh in station with your Black Box set to +1.2v. (Definitely put a "clamp on their thingy" first cuz the last time I got a shock, I nearly wet my pants. )

sorry LG & Gill-T - couldn't help it

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[Yankee Troller]

If you wan them to gain weight while sitting in the cooler come on my boat! And NO I don't put anything down their throat!

[momay4000]

Like I mentioned earlier - in the first few hours after a fish kicks the bucket, it will actually GAIN weight through the permeability of the skin changing, osmosis, etc. However, most fish lose weight b/c of the vomit, pee and pooh that they involuntarily lose, so there's a net loss.

My guess is it's impossible to prevent this but if you could somehow plug the anus and throat, you're all set.....

- Chris

[Gill-T]

This is where Ray will chime in with a lost shower plug blast.