Downrigger Ball depth

[Dan.Riordan]

Hey guys,

 

Still new to salmon fishing and don’t get out more than a few times a year (looking to get out more). I have older mag10s and am not looking to buy a fish hawk this year. But would really like to be more accurate with my ball depth. Was thinking about spray painting marks every 5 feet on the cable. I would start marks at 50ft and end at 200 ft. I fish out of Henderson and haven’t seen the need for anything over 200ft. I know it sounds like a lot but I’m young and don’t mind the labor/hassle of counting if it will save me some money. Let me know your opinion/suggestions or concerns with my idea.

 

Thanks

[Sk8man]

Dan- I'm assuming that you have the usual counters on your mag 10's and are not talking about what to do if no counters. The major difference in depth between a counter and the actual depth the weight is running is mainly accounted for by the boats speed the depth the weight is set at and potential underwater currents pushing against the weight down below. The way your downrigger cable and weight pushes backward is referred to as "blowback". Blowback usually affects the position of the weight by bringing it upward and possibly to the side as well. This means that your lure is probably running higher than the setting on your counter suggests. Having a Fishawk XD positions a probe near the weight which sends weight depth information so that you can compare where the weight is actually running in comparison to you rigger counter. This separates the amount of blowback and also tells you how this relates to your surface boat speed as well as the speed down at the downrigger weight which in some cases may be surprisingly different (e.g. effects of current etc.).

Edited May 30, 2018 by Sk8man

[Dan.Riordan]

Les - thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it. I do have the counters on the mag 10's but they have been giving me some issues (not staying aligned with the gear so they are very inaccurate). I am familiar with the issue of blowback and was looking into a Fish Hawk TD ($149.99) which is much cheaper and would allow me to compare my depth with the one on the Fish Hawk. Little more work and math involved than the x4 but still would would give me a rough idea of the blowback given all the factors you mentioned. 

 

Do you see any issue with spray painted markings on the cable for a more accurate measure of how much cable is in the water?   

[bandrus1]

are  you marking your balls on your fish finder?

[Dan.Riordan]

No, have an older fish finder. 

[VooDoo]

I also do not have a speed/temp system but that is on the next to get list .  I have clipped a fish hawk TD to a rigger ball

mainly to find the desired water temp but it certainly will tell you what depth you are acheiving.  Depending on the weight of your ball you should be able to see the depth the ball is running on your sonar.   I'm running 12 lb fish and can typically see where they are running down to about 60' or more before blowback pushes them out of the cone of the sonar.

 

[Dan.Riordan]

That's good to know, thank you

[Sk8man]

One of the first tyhings I would do is closely examine the counters on the Mag 10s. The little plastic gears on the counters should cleanly mesh against the gear wheels on the downrigger. There is some play in them naturally but look to see if the gears on either are stripped or missing teeth etc. If not press the platsic gears inward toward the other gear to make sure they mesh together as that is where the slipping occurs giving rise to the inaccurate readings. You may also be able to get new line counters for them isf they are broken at Fish307.com. and replace the counters. The Fishawk TB measures depth in 5 ft increments in response to changes in water pressure on its sensor. The TD is good for quite a few things but may not give you the info you are seeking because it doesn't measure in real time so changes in your motor speed or current etc. will not be reflected in it....its a one time measure at that point in time. My hunch is that you might go bananas trying to count all those 5 ft intervals on the way down....but maybe your attention span is better than mine For many years I just estimated the difference in blowback by looking at the degree of arc in my downrigger cable and the weight position indicated on my depth finder and "gusstimated" where it was actually running and usually kept it at about 30 degrees. One of the things I have recently noted using my X4D is that my estimations were pretty close and that with the shark type weights the blowback effect  is not as great as I once thought.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Sk8man

[Dan.Riordan]

Haha thank you, I will first look to fix the counters before marking the cable. 

 

Thanks for all the advice 

[guffins fisherman]

I had problems with my Mag 10s last fall.  Turns out, the gear on the spindle was broken, not the counters themselves.  They are very cheap on Fish307.  Only problem is, you have to take the rigger apart to get to them, including taking the wire off.  I think it took me a few hours total to get them apart, wire off and all back together for two riggers. You can look down in there and see if the gear on the spindle is broken before you take them apart.  As far as accurately knowing your depth at the ball, that is very speed dependent, current dependent and actual weight of the ball itself.

[greenboatluke]

I bought a TD 2 seasons ago and it does help getting you basic info, temps, and terminal depth. It will help you figure out blowback compared to your counter. Last season I got a X4D and am, of course, happy with it. But I wanted to let you know that I still use my TD. So it’s not money wasted. I send it down my dipsy wire before I crank them in so I can get general depth for wire out and take notes. I’ve also sent it down my copper. This winter I picked up riggers for my gunwales and with use the TD to figure out depth with wingers and blowback, so it still comes in handy. Lastly, there’s a member selling a TD in the classifieds.


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

[Dan.Riordan]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it. Good luck fishing

[FishingFool34]

I also recommend the fish hawk TD, but first I would look at getting your counters working. It's a pretty simple system, either the counter itself is bad, the small gear is bad or it isn't lined up properly. A new counter/gear combo is pretty cheap and would be where I started once you confirmed the alignment is good.

https://www.fish307.com/cannon-downrigger-part-0220477-depth-counter-3-digit/

https://www.fish307.com/cannon-downrigger-part-0833561-gear-counter/

[Xxx]

A couple years ago we were going over fish so thick why you’d think you would have to foul hook them, so to check something out we left a rigger set at 65ft. and drove towards a sandy bottom, left the ball down and kept our speed at 2.2-2.4 well we passed the 65’ mark than the 55’ mark and at 45 we started bumping bottom!! So we were fishing 20’ above the fish. So we added 20 foot to the finders depth and left 20’ more cable out, then we started hooking up with some silver fish. I was using a 10’ball. I switched to Harvey’s Troutmans torpedoes in the 12# ones cause I also have mag10’s that really reduced my blow back than I also purchased a Fish Hawk 4xd model and now I just cable out until the Hawk reads the same as the sonar is showing fish at. To me it’s a huge expense but like you I don’t get enough time on the water to figure this blow back business out, plus it gives me speed at the ball which is a big game changer!! With the wicked currents in LakeO it’s nearly impossible to know what’s happening below 50’. PAP

[phil2]

I have 1 rigger that's impossible to read when its sunny out I use my graph to find out where I'm at.