Problem with Little Salmon River Shootout rules

[rolmops]

After having read the LSR Shootout rules , it occurred to me that,according to the rules, I cannot go to a LOC derby weigh in station before weighing in my maybe 30 pound salmon at the Shootout scales. This can be the difference between biggest fish in the LOC Derby and second place. This is potentially a thousands of dollars difference. Can the rules be changed so we can first run and weigh our big fish at a LOC weigh in station?

[AnglingAddict]

Maybe the rules can be posted?   When I registered Fat Nancy's didn't have anymore copies of the rules.

Edited July 24, 2018 by AnglingAddict

[rolmops]

A-TOM-MIK Challenge Rules & Entry

Meeting:
There will be a rules review meeting held each Friday at 6:00 prior to event date. A team representative should be present. The tournament's intent is to fish 1 day. Hours of competition are 5am to 1pm on Saturday, unless altered by the tournament committee for inclement weather. In the event of inclement weather, same schedule & times will resume on Sunday.

-Teams may enter and exit from any port in Oswego or Cayuga County.

-Team Structure: Teams are not limited to a maximum number of anglers. Allowable max number of rods will be based on 4 anglers (12 rods). If you fish fewer than four anglers you may only run the number of rods allowed by law (3 per angler).

- Tournament fishing is limited to US waters.

- Fishing in tributaries is prohibited. For the purpose of the tournament all harbors and rivers will be considered tributaries.

- Radio Use: All participating boats must be equipped with an operational VHF radio.

- Open communication will be in effect throughout the tournament.

- Start and End Times: Teams will be allowed to leave their ports at any time and may start fishing at 5 A.M. End time is 1:00 P.M. All fish entered at weigh-in must be landed before 1:00 pm.

Weigh-in: - Upon returning to port the cooler containing the day's catch must be immediately transported to the weigh-in site, Oswego Marina. Weigh-in starts at 12:00 P.M.. A team representative must be in line for weigh-in no later than 3:00 P.M. with catch.

- At least one team member must remain with the days catch until surrendered to the Weigh-in committee.

- All coolers must be marked with the team name.

- All coolers will be considered sealed at the end of the day's fishing and handling of fish by anyone other than a tournament official is prohibited.

- Coolers must arrive at the Pre-Check Station free of loose ice or water. Ice in cooler has to be bagged. The tournament committee strongly suggests opening the drain plug on the cooler prior to pre-check.

- All coolers at the weigh-in must contain no more than six of the allowable Tournament species. Coolers with more than six will be disqualified.

- Weighed in fish will be identified by hole punch in tail, after weight has been recorded.

Scoring: (based on a 2 person limit)

- Tournament limit shall be 6 fish, no Lake trout or Atlantic salmon allowed.

- Minimum size for trout and salmon is 18 inches, except steelhead is 21 1/2. Certified measuring boards will be used at the weigh in site. Each fish will score 10 points. One point will be scored per pound of fish weighed.

- If any fish submitted for weigh-in is found to be smaller than the minimum size established by the tournament, the undersized fish will be disallowed. In addition, 10 points plus 1 point per pound of the undersized fish will be deducted from the team's score.

Liability: Every reasonable precaution will be taken by the Tournament Committee to protect persons and property during the contest. However, the Committee, its judges, sponsors, officers, directors or employees of the same will not be held responsible for the safety of persons or property participating in the tournament. All participants further understand and agree to hold harmless members of the aforementioned groups from any liability or claim of damages.

- All tournament boats should carry liability insurance.

- Each boat owner or a representative will be required to sign a liability disclaimer at review meeting

 

These are the rules. They are the same as the Atom mik challenge rules, except for the meeting and Jefferson County is added to Oswego and Cayuga counties. (from Fairhaven to Sackets harbor
 

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Edited July 25, 2018 by rolmops

[Fishtails]

Quote

On 7/24/2018 at 7:37 PM, rolmops said:

After having read the LSR Shootout rules , it occurred to me that,according to the rules, I cannot go to a LOC derby weigh in station before weighing in my maybe 30 pound salmon at the Shootout scales. This can be the difference between biggest fish in the LOC Derby and second place. This is potentially a thousands of dollars difference. Can the rules be changed so we can first run and weigh our big fish at a LOC weigh in station?

 

 

 

These are very standard tournament rules :

 

Weigh-in: - Upon returning to port the cooler containing the day's catch must be immediately transported to the weigh-in site, Oswego Marina. Weigh-in starts at 12:00 P.M.. A team representative must be in line for weigh-in no later than 3:00 P.M. with catch.

 

 

I personally wouldn't want it any other way.  From boat to weigh in....no exceptions.  I would take it a step further myself and also add to the rules that two team members should remain with the cooler at all times  (am standard Pro Am rule)

 

The rule is there to deter cheating.  We all know foul play occurs with a small percentage of participants. I think all that can really be done when the honor system is in play is to police ourselves and not have rules in place that encourage or aid cheating. If a team is allowed to drive their catch to another weigh station for an LOC entry first (per your suggestion), then who's to say they cant also stop and pick up a drink and some lunch, some gas for the truck, then get to the LOC scales the same time as their buddy whom just so happened to also catch a nice fish whom lets just say didn't want to keep his fish and voila,  "someone" ends up with a nice addition to the cooler.  Then off to weigh in they go....

 

Just one scenario in 100's of similar scenarios that could take place. So....by policing ourselves we can keep an eye on each other. No stopping at a friends house, or stopping by a friends boat, or going for gas, lunch, LOC scales, the bar, etc.  From the boat to weigh in.....keep it simple and make it more uncomfortable for that very small minority to do their dirty work. 

 

I have nothing to do with this tournament, nor am I even fishing it so it's just my opinion but I do fish a lot of tournaments and totally support any rule that keeps the foul play to a minimum. I just fished the Oswego Pro Am on the Amateur side and the rules stated no culling, yet there were no observers to enforce it.  A few boats came in with huge 9 fish boxes both days, so we are to believe they caught zero small fish out of the 18 in two days?  A truly difficult task !!  Is it possible, sure.  But that margin of doubt shouldn't exist because its an unenforceable leftover rule from the days am's had an observer. Overall I loved fishing the Oswego Pro Am and thought it was a GREAT event.

 

It's just that my team was basically done and pulled lines with 8 of our 9 (mostly smaller) at 9:45 am Saturday so we went to scout waters for the next day. We finished off our 9th around noon and went in early feeling we probably got beat by teams who culled a few and upgraded their box throughout the day. Culling should ALWAYS be allowed if there are no observers on the boat or it just becomes a tournament that favors the cheaters, and also puts the honest guys in a position to either have to break a rule that shouldn't exist or get beat by those who do. Hopefully it gets eliminated from the 2019 Am rules because I really did love the Oswego Pro Am this year  !!! 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Fishtails

[rolmops]

Thank you for this excellent explanation. You are absolutely right.


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[Frogger]

 
 
These are very standard tournament rules :
 
Weigh-in: - Upon returning to port the cooler containing the day's catch must be immediately transported to the weigh-in site, Oswego Marina. Weigh-in starts at 12:00 P.M.. A team representative must be in line for weigh-in no later than 3:00 P.M. with catch.
 
 
I personally wouldn't want it any other way.  From boat to weigh in....no exceptions.  I would take it a step further myself and also add to the rules that two team members should remain with the cooler at all times  (am standard Pro Am rule)
 
The rule is there to deter cheating.  We all know foul play occurs with a small percentage of participants. I think all that can really be done when the honor system is in play is to police ourselves and not have rules in place that encourage or aid cheating. If a team is allowed to drive their catch to another weigh station for an LOC entry first (per your suggestion), then who's to say they cant also stop and pick up a drink and some lunch, some gas for the truck, then get to the LOC scales the same time as their buddy whom just so happened to also catch a nice fish whom lets just say didn't want to keep his fish and voila,  "someone" ends up with a nice addition to the cooler.  Then off to weigh in they go....
 
Just one scenario in 100's of similar scenarios that could take place. So....by policing ourselves we can keep an eye on each other. No stopping at a friends house, or stopping by a friends boat, or going for gas, lunch, LOC scales, the bar, etc.  From the boat to weigh in.....keep it simple and make it more uncomfortable for that very small minority to do their dirty work. 
 
I have nothing to do with this tournament, nor am I even fishing it so it's just my opinion but I do fish a lot of tournaments and totally support any rule that keeps the foul play to a minimum. I just fished the Oswego Pro Am on the Amateur side and the rules stated no culling, yet there were no observers to enforce it.  A few boats came in with huge 9 fish boxes both days, so we are to believe they caught zero small fish out of the 18 in two days?  A truly difficult task !!  Is it possible, sure.  But that margin of doubt shouldn't exist because its an unenforceable leftover rule from the days am's had an observer. Overall I loved fishing the Oswego Pro Am and thought it was a GREAT event.
 
It's just that my team was basically done and pulled lines with 8 of our 9 (mostly smaller) at 9:45 am Saturday so we went to scout waters for the next day. We finished off our 9th around noon and went in early feeling we probably got beat by teams who culled a few and upgraded their box throughout the day. Culling should ALWAYS be allowed if there are no observers on the boat or it just becomes a tournament that favors the cheaters, and also puts the honest guys in a position to either have to break a rule that shouldn't exist or get beat by those who do. Hopefully it gets eliminated from the 2019 Am rules because I really did love the Oswego Pro Am this year  !!! 

So is culling considered catching a small fish immediately throwing back never allowing it to hit the live well or cooler? I view culling as keeping a larger fish you just caught and throwing back a smaller fish out of the live well.



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[Fishtails]

No Culling according to the Pro Am rules means you cannot release any fish that has been caught / boated, unless it is under the tournaments legal size limit. Rules also state no shaking fish off, releasing out of net, cutting line or any act to aid in the loosing or release of  the fish.

 

Its a good pro rule, but a terrible AM rule when no observer is on board.

[Frogger]

Well yea, that’s a tough deal.


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[FishinIsLife]

On 7/27/2018 at 9:27 AM, Fishtails said:

No Culling according to the Pro Am rules means you cannot release any fish that has been caught / boated, unless it is under the tournaments legal size limit. Rules also state no shaking fish off, releasing out of net, cutting line or any act to aid in the loosing or release of  the fish.

 

Its a good pro rule, but a terrible AM rule when no observer is on board.

Definitely a terrible AM rule, since it's unenforceable (no observer) and clearly hurts the honest guys.