2009 Pro Am Rule Changes

[Gill-T]

Since this thread has had it's recent "maxipad moments" lets summarize and put it to bed with a poll. Here are the talking points.

1).Observers vs no observers

2). Cull rule in Niagara and maybe Orleans vs no-cull

3). Amateur fish limit 6 vs 9

4). Open communication vs communication blackout between boats

5). Pre-fish friday vs no pre-fish

6). U.S. only water boundaries vs no lake boundaries

7). Amateur money stays on Am. side vs Amateur/Pro shared revenue

. Amateur six rod limit vs eight rod limit

Maybe Chad Lapa could rig up a poll......I am not smart enough to figure it out on my own, and figure out why #8 is showing up as a cool dude with glasses?

[rail bird]

A number of posters in this thread have been asking for a rule change to fish in Candaian waters. It is my understanding from a lotsa meeting a few years ago that there are some leagal issues that pretty much prevent any thought about changing this rule.

[MyTurn]

A number of posters in this thread have been asking for a rule change to fish in Candaian waters. It is my understanding from a lotsa meeting a few years ago that there are some leagal issues that pretty much prevent any thought about changing this rule.

I seem to recall that too Greg, though can't remember the specifics.

[landingzone]

I'm not sure what that reason would be, rail bird. When fishing the Scottys from the Canadian side, you can fish in either Canadian or US waters.

Dick

[3dfx]

Polls will not over-turn decisions that aren't of the committees liking, that has been proven !!

It is certain excuses will follow as to why a majority decision from a poll will not become a rule !!

Its been proven from past polls !!

Unless comity members are now willing to favor a wider variety of participants and lose the excuses that followed last time favoring their own decisions?

lets not forget this VERY vaild point. perhaps someone should look into the "legalities" or was it someone using that as an excuse at a lotsa meeting? kind of like the open communication rule, there is no clear or consistent answer from the commitee, just alot of dancing around the question hoping to not step on someones toes! also have to agree with chromeslayer, if this scotty talk takes off here in the states with the money they are guaranteeing, should be quite interesting! another very good point landingzone!

Dave

[get it wet]

As an Organizer of tournaments and a participant in many others I believe observers are not the answer. Tried on our side and it was very frowned upon. Main reason I think is because most observers are putting time in and don't really know what there job is or even know the rules.

If it was the answer there wouldn't be a problem a many weigh-ins like they do now.

These tournaments give anglers a chance to put their skills on the line on an even playing field for a weekend under the same conditions fishing the same hours head to head. That's the exciting part. Make no mistake that there is no comparison whatsoever to a Derby/Lottery. There are many great fisherman that fish Derbies but it is what it is.

Rules should be in place and enforced. If you can't enforce them then you should not have it in. A lot of you talk about communication. It can't be enforced properly and will always have protest on this rule. Tournament nightmare. Open it up and don't worry about it.

The border-- open it up and no problems again. The fact that is against the law is false. The organizers what the fish to be caught on the american side and I don't blame them, the county is the main sponsor. If the Winning fish came from the other side year after year so would tourism dollars eventually.

What I can tell you today is there are 2 King Of The Lake tournaments coming to the American side in 2009 with $25,000 Guaranteed 1st, $10,000 2nd and paying a guaranteed 10 spots. No Observer, Lie detector in force, Weigh your best 5 kings or Coho's total points.

We are excited to finally bring this quality of tournament to Lake Ontario.

We will have a press Release later this week.

Yvan

[Iceman]

This sounds great (King of the Lake Tourneys), I will be seriously looking forward to the release mentioned above. Enough with the arcane policies and the closed minded individuals we have been talking about above!!!!

Iceman

[rail bird]

I'm not sure what that reason would be, rail bird. When fishing the Scottys from the Canadian side, you can fish in either Canadian or US waters.

Dick

I am going from memory but the issue seemed to be that if anyone crossed an international border and commited fraud in some way to try and win money that it violated the law with very large penalties, long jail terms and steep fines. Even though this seems like a deterrent one discrepancy could end someone in the kind of trouble that would not help anyone. I think the observer rule plays into this as you are bringing an unwitting participant over an international border to commit a fraud.

[A-TOM-MIK]

We participated in the 1st Scotty's event this fall under the new agenda, very well ran and we look forward to participating in the rest of them for sure. It's hard to gripe about an event that we only participated in once. I am sure with economy and schedules if participants have to choose to either fish a Pro/Am or a Scotty's that the Scotty's will at minimum be favored due to cash pay-out The Scotty's are fresh and will become very appealing after anglers experience the warm feeling of a fresh event that is ran quite well. We will fish both, may not like open communication from either but will fish them. One major issue with the Pro/Am's on the communication rule is the fact the rule was changed after no communication was in place (especially Oswego over a majority of participants who were opposed) just sad that the committee ruling is still favored on this subject, I would think the committee would want to favor a large majority of participants over their own liking, but not the case they simply do not care as been proven....sad !!

As far as policing the issue it is their best excuse but just that, just an excuse, personally I have participated in the Oswego Pro/Am's for many, many years with NO COMMUNICATION, never a problem, observers collected cell phones and such and entrants simply did not communicate, period !!

We have also participated in other events with no communication through the years, in Canada and the states, again never problems.

Committee members and tourney staff who actually are involved in these events as well as running them will always favor rules for their own liking, guess I might do the same, not really sure? But it's obvious they strongly want to keep communication open as they continually dodge our over-whelming majority pressure, pretty simple math.

I think I mentioned this last time when this topic came up on people who speed or break various laws, do we open up the speed limits on our roads due to not being able to completely stop everyone from speeding?

Tom

[get it wet]

Tom

You have some very good points. I know this is something that comes up in a lot of meetings.

As a fisherman I could care less if there is communication. If it is allowed we talk and if not we don't. I have not seen the advantage either way because the info you get sometimes screws you up more than helps. As an organizer it is a nightmare with all the complaints. The observer deal is the biggest rule in place that deters teams.

The one thing I can personnaly tell you is people find excuses not to fish the events because of one reason or another. Instead of a little effort in putting a team together and fishing which at times is challenging they opt out and blame everybody else for their own reasons. Like I said before, Try one of these events you might just enjoy yourselves!

Yvan

[johnbrownt]

I fished pro ams off and on for about 10 years when work aloud me. After what they did in Orleans last year I didn`t fish one since.

[3dfx]

get it wet - you are correct that for most the open communication really doesn't help..... and usually hinders.......but for "some" (and you know who they are) that do get reliable information it will make or break theirs and your placing. last year at niagara is a perfect example especially on the second day! would many of those boats that had good fishing east of olcott on saturday made it ALL the way to the river on sunday without reliable information from their "network'? probably not!!!!! so, put yourself in this situation....your team is in the money or close. you make the calculated decision to head to the river on the second day based on YOUR prefishing and do well....the guys that went the other way because they did well there the first day have tough fishing, whats the last thing you want to see???? the competetion,,,,,correct??????? they would have to make the decision on their own to risk running down to the river blindly. since this rule was changed there is no strategy......"lets keep intouch with the network and hand them the program if they are struggling. we do want to win but we wouldn;t want to step on any toes either right????? so you who pre fished your ass off and had a program were just knocked out of the MONEY by someone in the network BECAUSE OF OPEN COMMUNICATION!!!!! makes sense to me. just on of the many rule changes i have seen over the years to welll..... i will say it!!!!! perhaps stack the deck???????? sorry again for my rant but lets really look at the picture here. and again i will say it, funny that all of a sudden the commite wants suggestions when they COULD lose a number of boats to the scotty especially if it is run as good as some of the posters have stated! dave

[muskybob]

I for one will probably fish the Scotty this year. I can't wait to see how some of the guys who don't fish the ProAms will do, if they enter. Particularly one individual. :D

Hey Iceman, thanks for the comments. Let's do lunch sometime, call me.

[FISHINMAN]

WOW :shock: I just decided to read that whole post :shock:

As a guy that fished in 2007 Sodus Pro Am as my first one with Ray K, Musky and I forming a team I had a great time (even with being sick on day 2) three strangers that all met right here on this site and it was the first time all 3 of us had even met. I think the observer rule is a good one as long as they are explained the rules and what their job is. I know at that particular "captains meeting" it was hard for us to hear the rules with all the idol chit chat in the room by guys that had been doing them for years who didn't really need to hear the rules or didn't care because they weren't going to maybe abide by them all anyways maybe :shock: :x .

As far as the "NO CULLING" rule goes I hated it last year at the Niagara event :evil:. Being a guy that releases 99.9% of the fish I catch that is the biggest part of the reason as to why I will no longer fish these events. Keeping fish that are 19inches and weigh 5lbs or less sucks :!: Couple that with the fact that you spend a lot of money to go and participate in these events and like it was stated you fish for maybe 2 hours or less and your done stinks :shock: :roll: :x. I understand the water temp issue with catch and release in the warmer water but certainly not at the Niagara that's for sure, but I also think that isn't all that accurate for the most part anyways but understand too that they want to keep the rules the same for all 4 events:!:

Finding an observer isn't all that hard if it is explained to them in the first place what exactly they will be doing as far as their job and that they will be on a different boat than yours.

Look at our observer at Sodus last year. It's the person in BLUE. "JOY" TO THE WORLD!

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

As far as the Iceman goes like a few guys have stated put up or shut up! The only reason you have stated for not fishing the pro ams is because you "don't want a stranger on your boat"! Sounds like a load of ___IT or you have something to hide maybe ! Fishing the Pro Am's is tougher than catching a single big fish in the LOC. By the way how many hours did you fish in the LOC. Try to tell the truth as we don't have any observers to dispute your answer as to whether you are or aren't telling the truth Just messin with ya don't have a hissy fit and you should call Musky he's a great guy to fish and talk with if you ever get a chance to.

Way to go Rod aka Fishtails you got everyone in an uproar..... LOL :!: Actually good thread especially this time of year.

[Gill-T]

Come on Tom, you posted a picture of Ray in a tank top! I am trying to eat my cereal. :shock: The idea of this forum is to try to get MORE people to show up at the Pro/Ams. That picture will not help.

[synergyboy10]

it seems to me that observers are the biggest problem for most of you guys. how come no one complains about them for the tightlines tournament. they even raised the field ten boats to a total of 50 and claim to still have a wait list. i know a lot of Americans have not fished this particular tourny. observers are a good thing. you know that someone is going to try to cheat especially with a grand prise of $25 grand. i think you guys are just looking for something to complain about.

[A-TOM-MIK]

The Tightline Shootout is truly a great event with much thought into what the participants want !! May just be the best event I ever fished !!!!!

-NO COMMUNICATION

-Observers

-No trying to beat the clock, you quit fishing at 2:30

-Culling is allowed

-6 rod limit

-One category

-Salmon Only

-Nice pay-out

-Blast off from one port

Just a few rules from memory that come to mind in this event

Tom

[spoonfed-1]

That Tight Lines tournament sounds interesting.

Where is it out of?

When?

1 or 2 days?

Thanks

Glen

[FISHINMAN]

Sorry Gill T and everyone else that has to have their eyes washed out now I don't have photo shop to eliminate his face or that "body" !

Hey there's my camera on top of the cooler :shock: Oh that was not the event :roll:

[spoonfed-1]

Thanks, Where is Bluffers park? Need to locate it to see if this would be possible for me.

Glen

[L&M]

Toronto: http://www.bluffsparkmarina.com/

[A-TOM-MIK]

32 miles across the pond from Wilson Marina

[synergyboy10]

The Tightline Shootout is truly a great event with much thought into what the participants want !! May just be the best event I ever fished !!!!!

-NO COMMUNICATION

-Observers

-No trying to beat the clock, you quit fishing at 2:30

-Culling is allowed

-6 rod limit

-One category

-Salmon Only

-Nice pay-out

-Blast off from one port

Just a few rules from memory that come to mind in this event

Tom

it is in my mind the best tourney on the lake. the scottys are also run very well. it seems like the guys that want run the Canadian based tourney want to see them succeed. the pro-ams seem to be run by guys on a power trip.

[Fishtails]

Geez....who was the idiot that started this thread....he he :roll: Your right though Brian, I think we all knew this would never stay on track.

Update from the committee:

I have followed closely the thread on LOU and appreciate everyone sharing their

thoughts. At some point in the near future, when the committee has had a chance

to also consider the comments on LOU, one of us will respond or at least refer

interested parties to the pro-am website.

About all I can say Is thanks to all who have contributed in a positive manner on this thread. I hope some of the quality ideas and opinions are beneficial and considered when adopting the new rules for the 2009 Pro Ams. There are some very strong opinions on some very important issues that we were collectively able to put in front of the committee. I look forward to seeing how this all plays out. Reguardless.....Our team Is looking forward to fishing the Pro Ams In 2009!!

To the committee, I apologize for the couple who just cant seem to control their actions. You shouldn't have to waste your time reading the nonsense a couple members have posted. They know who they are and their words speak for themselves. There's always one or two In every crowd, so what are ya gonna do?

[Cannonball Runner]

I've fished the pro/ams for many years. If they drop the cup I won't fish in all the events any more. As far as the observer why do we have them? There has been boats that have been turned in for stuff before and nothing was done. I had an observer on my boat he sleep for 2 days and just come out to fill out the paper work and go right back to bed this year. The reason that I have heard most teams not getting in to the tournments are rules weren't enforced, am's want the 9 fish limit and most people want no communication. This tournment has lost some integrity over the years and that is a hard thing to get back. I know alot of people that won't fish them because they feel its who you are when it comes to breaking the rules.You are fishing against networks not teams. I use it because you might as well everyone else is. My team has talked about not fishing the pro/am's and doing just the Scotty's. I know if there is no cup that will be their vote.