2009 Pro Am Rule Changes

[Iceman]

Does the old amature structure still require an observer?

[spoonfed-1]

The old Am rules were yes to observer and yes to 3 man team,9 fish limit.

Glen

[Grandslam]

I have fished the pro- ams never had a problem with any observer (drunk , sick , angry). You do need some type of lie dedector, or observer in a large derby event. I thought there was a problem in the Fat nancy 3 big fish with a cheater, i could be mistaken. I will be there regardless.

Team Grand Slam

[Gill-T]

Are Lake Trout exempt from the "no cull rule"?

[Fishtails]

I'm assuming It's a 3 man (minimum), but you can have 4 members If you choose? Just can't run more than 6 rods......would that be correct? I'm sure all our questions will be answered In the next couple weeks. I like 4 man teams In case something goes wrong with your observer. It gives you room to give up a team member and still have your 3 man team. We have had good observers except for one and I am In agreement that we need observers or detectors. Regardless of anything else, It stops the accusations.

Soon guys, we'll be out there trolling again

[spoonfed-1]

Gill T

Under the old rules,9 fish limit, am teams could take one bonus laker but back then there was a slot.

Have to wait and see what the commitee decides on that one.

Glen

[Irish Hammer]

Without reading through all eleven pages of this thread for my answer, I will throw it out now. If you are a holder of a OUPV license(capt. lic), do you have to register in the pro division? Yes, I do some big lake fishing with friends and family and understand the basics of lake fishing but I am a far fetch from a charter captain. I would think that it would be unfair to individuals like me to be placed in the pro division for merely having a captains license. Not all individuals who procure their captains license do so for charter fishing purposes. Can someone explain to me what constitutes a pro angler entrant from an amateur angler entrant. Thanks

Irish Hammer

[landingzone]

This is the definition from the Pro/Am site:

16. Pro Division Definition: Any Captain or team member, excluding the observer, who is/was (or has been within the past 5 years) a licensed charter boat captain, fishing guide, or commercial fisherman, is required to enter the Pro Division. All others may enter the Amateur Division. Amateurs may enter the Pro Division if openings are available.

[ray koziatek]

[q

[Irish Hammer]

Thanks for the reply Ray. I have to ask, what constitutes a charter boat captain? I have never chartered for money. I would not mind giving one of these pro-ams a try. I just want to make sure I can enter the amateur division.

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[waterlogged]

Rodney,

You can have a 10 man crew as long as you only run 6 rods.

Irish Hammer - if you have a current Captain's license this would limit you to being an observer for a team or entering the Pro division is my interpretation.

[Legacy]

wow 11 pages

[spoonfed-1]

If you or anybody on your team has a capt. license, you must enter the pro division. Whether you run charters or not.

Glen

[ray koziatek]

Ive got PRIVATS on my boat so we will still get to play with the little guys.

[Irish Hammer]

That is disappointing to hear. It discourages me from participating for a couple of reasons. I have to pay more to enter and I have to compete against teams that have ten fold the knowledge and experience Lake fishing that I have. I believe if I read through the rules I would have a few more reasons as well. If the committee is monitoring this, it might be worth some discussion for next year. Placing a boat and crew in the pro division for merely having your captains license I believe is unfair. I would think placement in the pro division would be justified with charter fishing captains for hire or individuals who have been charter fishing captains in the past. By placing the title captain in front of an individuals name does not make this individual an experienced angler. Enough with my ranting. I would like to see this as a talking point for the committee for future pro-ams.

Paul Corbett

Irish Hammer

[Shade]

Looks like the Amature division of the Pro/Am is going to be just a handful unless some drastic changes are made. I looked at the rules of the Scotty and I do not see the need for Observers, however the ocmpetition is not for me either.

Like some of you guys said if ya don't like it don't enter. Well I guess I'll save my $250 fee + the $75 Observer fee + my Hotel $150 and $200 we spend in Olcott restaurants and just have some fun with my friends fishing.

No hard feeling guys and I truly wish all you guys luck and stay safe this year.

[Paul Czarnecki]

The Rules haven't been posted yet and you guys are jumping to conclusions.

Paul....you will, most likely, never see a change to the Captain Rule. There has to be a verifiable method for determining "Pro" status and a Captains' license is the only way to do that.

Paul and Howie (Shade).....you do not HAVE to fish the traditional Pro or Am Divisions that require observers. This year we have added an OPEN Division which is open to ANYONE--pro or am, does not require an observer, allows culling and is limited to weighing your best three fish each day. It is modeled on the wildly successful "Friday Events" from last year and is geared toward Pros (like Paul) that don't want to compete against the Big Guns and Ams (like Howie) that don't want to deal with observers.

These changes have taken place in response to the suggestions made by participants over the past two years. The Committees are listening!

Please wait until ALL the Rules are posted before you start condemning the changes we have made for YOU that were based on YOUR suggestions.

See everyone in two weeks at the LOTSA show!

Paul

[zipnzim]

Paul thanks for the update see you at the pro/ams !!!thanks again kicker

[Time Out]

Thanks for the update Paul.

I know freedom of opinon is something that makes this country great, but it seems that there is a select few who try voice their personal opinion for a group that doesn't exist. These tournaments are a truely enjoyable time. I don't think negativity towards any tournament, Scotty, pro-am, loc,etc.. is going to help anyone. Tournament, sponsors, or fisherman.

If there is a tournament that has rules that better meet your needs, then I say fish that one. Dont try to prevent someone from fishing a tournament with negativity because of your own personal opinion. They may enjoy it and not be bothered by any of the rules.

Tournaments should be looked at as a way to promote our fishery for all to see and to have a good time. People notice 500 strangers in their town and love their money.

Sorry If I offended anyone

Jeff Zimmer

Cold Water Affair

[RUNNIN REBEL]

Hey Paul,

Can I vent after page #13 starts here? I promise to stick to the last 23 years of pro-ams only!!!

JERRY

TEAM RUNNIN REBEL

[troubles]

Paul

I'll try to be more fun this year but I think I'll stay on a pro team.See you down west.

Jerry 23 years you must be older than you look man! Ok you started very young.

[Shade]

Paul,

I am NOT going to apologize because I gave my opinion on th Pro/Am. This topic was posted asking what we thought and what changes we wanted to see as AMATURES. If it offends the committee thats part of the job man. If it bothers people on the question of observers then explain why we have them and why so much info like wieght points, times and lures used. Explane why Amatures who want to fish with the Pros can not get in if the Pro side has met their limit.

I think you guys have a tough job and that goes anytime we volunteer to do something as far as tounaments or even planning a trip. Unfortunatly you guys have to listen to all the complaints that will come about no matter what rules you you put into play.

By weighing in the first 6 fish I thought was a great way to keep the integrity of the the sport in hand. Good rule. Taking out the bonus fish....Good Rule change. I'll bet there are 20 teams or more out there that did not like the changes.

Had the quetion not been asked My team would have looked at the 2009 rules and wopuld have decided wether or not we would enter.

But i will not apologize to you or anybody else on giving my wish list of tournament changes.

Howard Nola - IS MY NAME

[Irish Hammer]

Mr. Czarnecki,

Thank you for your timely response and information you provided. I will definitely take a look at what the open division has to offer. I understand your point that there has to be a verifiable method for determining pro status. Although I don't agree with how the pro-ams make a determination on what constitutes a pro, I understand that there has to be guidelines. I, like others are responding to what this thread started as, an avenue to provide ideas on what would bring in more teams. I may be in a select group as an individual who has a captains license but does not use it for commercial gain but I thought I would throw it out on the table as a talking point. I look forward to seeing increased success for all the tournaments and derbies that take place around Lake Ontario and provide valuable dollars into many hurting economies.

Paul Corbett

Irish Hammer

[mrhappy]

Paul – Wish I could of replied sooner however I was enjoying the wonderful weather we had this weekend. Anyway, I like others appreciate your info pertaining to the rules changes. Like at least one post indicated I too thought that this forum was created to voice our opinions/suggestions relating to the Pro/Am bet it positive or negative. After all the initial post in this thread stated that “the committee†wanted to simplify the Am division in order to draw more teams! What I continue to see here is that it is not simplicity that participants want; I read suggestions to changes relating to culling, open communication, borders and observers. My personal belief after fishing these events from the beginning is there is a need for observers IF they are used in a consistent manner. You as well as I know that this has NOT been the case in plenty of situations; I will not get into this observer topic any longer as most of us whom have fished the event for any length of time have seen many of the blunders! I understand that nothing is perfect but some of these situations frankly cast a bad light on the integrity of the event. I have to disagree that the committee has listened to the participants as many of the questionable rules have not even been considered let alone revised. I must ask if you desire to simplify why would you model another division after “the wildly successful Friday event†when this event is already occurring and as you state so successful? Just doesn’t make sense. Further, I do feel your frustration, however, you calling people out is highly unlike you. So if I want to be considered “A BIG BOY†I should put my money where my mouth is. This is very insulting to many of us when our question has not been answered. Why would we in our right mind enter this event when some of the participants (perhaps you included as a committee member) could review the teams score sheets from the prior two days which has a tremendous amount of information. This could be an unfair advantage and even if it is just an assumption could cause more hard feelings at the end of the day! Also I would think that such a high dollar event would also require an observer. Remember what happened with the Si-Tex tournament back in the 80’s? In relation to involvement in the committee, we all appreciate the hard work many of you put into organizing this event but to say get involved is humorous. Forgive if I am wrong here but your tenure on the committee as an active member although appreciated is within the last 10 yrs. Prior to your involvement many rules were changed a few of which you have said you are not in favor of in various forums. During your tenure there have been various members of the fishing community including members of LOTSA who have attempted to become active and involved members only to find out that their suggestions for the most part go unheard and fall through the cracks of the good ole boy network! This can and does get frustrating! So if you are that tired of being on the committees as you indicated I would suggest you step down as your frustration is beginning to show. I for one am amused with your insults of us nameless dolts. It is apparent that the committee is open for suggestions as long as they don’t step on any toes or pressure rule changes that SOME committee members don’t want to see changed. Paul, this post is in no way meant to insult you or question YOUR integrity, nor is it to “stir more ****â€! It is reality! I must give you credit in the fact that of all the committee members YOU are the only one who sticks their neck out to answer these posts difficult or not. Maybe other members of the committee are not able to use a computer? Warmest regards. Mrhappy

[Iceman]

Kind of like the old conundrum, "if a tree falls in the forest & there is no one there to hear it, does it make a sound"?

Just had to repeat myself, again.