3 D gun printing

[chinook35]

Unfortunately the drug cartels, gang members, MS-13, and many of our own "citizens" view the existing laws, legal system, and law enforcement as totally irrelevant to their greedy money-gathering activities and are willing to pay huge amounts of money for guns that have been assembled from parts, or stolen and then the serial numbers removed. The gunsmiths and people familiar with the assembly of firearms do not care about the existing laws, nor are they deterred from making fortunes from the activities. It is logical and prudent to be concerned about ANY process that would further exacerbate the problems we already have but just making something illegal by legislative measures won't change things either with the massive amounts of money involved. Our incompetent legislators at the Federal and State levels don't have a clue about what to do about any of these problems. most have absolutely no actual knowledge of firearms, and usually they initiate bogus laws to pretend to be in "control" of legitimate gun owners (of which I am one) that they have access to the registry information about - and make it look to the general public like they are "doing something" about the problems....meanwhile illegal guns and criminals using them flood the streets in ever escalating numbers doing whatever they wish with those illegal firearms. 

I hear what you’re saying. My point was , that there is a law against manufacturing firearms. So the patterns to manufacture 3D printed guns should automatically be illegal , and not available to the general public


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[weave]

It is not illegal to manufacture a firearm. It is illegal to make one and not register it with the ATF.


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[chinook35]

It is not illegal to manufacture a firearm. It is illegal to make one and not register it with the ATF.


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Wrong. It is against the law to manufacture firearms without a license check the BATF website


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[weave]

Wrong. It is against the law to manufacture firearms without a license check the BATF website


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I think we are saying essentially the same thing. The only thing stopping you from legally making a firearm in your basement is ATF paperwork.

My concern with 3D printed guns is, manufacture of a firearm took a fair amount of skill in a trade and expensive equipment. With the advent a 3D printing, all you need is an appropriate printer and a data file. It opens it up to pretty much anyone.


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[Fishnut]

In Pa you are aloud to build a firearm at home you just cannot sell it.

[chinook35]

In Pa you are aloud to build a firearm at home you just cannot sell it.

I was talking to my buddy that had a first hand encounter with this subject. I stand corrected. It IS legal to build a firearm for your own use. He was a heavy equip operator and was working st Remington in Ilion He got to know some of the guys at the factory and they let him take all the reject parts out of trash barrels we shot a lot of trap back then so he was building 3200 over and unders. The catch was he was selling them. The atf , troopers , Sherriff and who knows who else raided his house. He got arrested and every gun in the house was confiscated he got off with a stiff fine , but it took him almost a year to get his personal firearms back. And he had a bunch I don’t know where this 3D printing is going but I hope they find a way to stop it. Only going to make it worse for us law abiding gun owners


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[justtracytrolling]

The blueprints are already out...the printers themselves are legal.... sounds like any criminal operation isn't going to be stopped with more legislation....

[WickedGood]

Now they will be Yelling BAN PAPER! BAN PAPER!  

 

 

[weave]

59 minutes ago, justtracytrolling said:

The blueprints are already out...the printers themselves are legal.... sounds like any criminal operation isn't going to be stopped with more legislation....

 

No, they won't be stopped, but with legislation they can be jailed when caught.

 

Murder isn't stopped by legislation either, but we've made it illegal so a murderer can at least be punished.

[Kingfisher06]

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 10:33 PM, chinook35 said:

I hear what you’re saying. My point was , that there is a law against manufacturing firearms. So the patterns to manufacture 3D printed guns should automatically be illegal , and not available to the general public


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Not that I own or am interested in books like the Anarchist Cookbook, but I do believe in the protection of first amendment rights. The blueprints should not be illegal. Soon enough, once we go down this road of curtailing the first amendment, we'll see Mark Twain's books be banned because they used the n-word. You cant budge on the first amendment.

[rolmops]

10 hours ago, Kingfisher06 said:

Not that I own or am interested in books like the Anarchist Cookbook, but I do believe in the protection of first amendment rights. The blueprints should not be illegal. Soon enough, once we go down this road of curtailing the first amendment, we'll see Mark Twain's books be banned because they used the n-word. You cant budge on the first amendment.

That is an entirely different can of worms.

Edited August 8, 2018 by rolmops

[fisherdude]

I seen in the news this morning this guy has a black skeleton hanging by the neck with a rebel flag over it. Let's give this guy a ghost gun .hey it's the first amendment.

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[FishingFool34]

17 hours ago, fisherdude said:

I seen in the news this morning this guy has a black skeleton hanging by the neck with a rebel flag over it. Let's give this guy a ghost gun .hey it's the first amendment.

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So much wrong with that whole comment, I don't even know where to begin... Lets start with "Ghost Gun", please don't use that term! It's a made up political term like "assault rifle" that politicians use to entice an emotional reaction out of uneducated people. You realize that every long gun sold in NY could be LEGALLY sold and re-sold 100s of times with no record of any of the transactions? Also all the NICS checks run for anyone to purchase a firearm are supposed to be erased with no records kept. That means there is no way to accurately trace any long gun as it could have belonged to dozens of different people during its lifetime. So what good is a serial number on them? Also most pistols used in violent crimes are stolen, so what good does a serial number do if it is registered to someone other than the person using it?

Edited August 9, 2018 by FishingFool34

[dry net]

Nicely stated FishingFool34

[Kingfisher06]

On 8/8/2018 at 5:14 PM, rolmops said:

That is an entirely different can of worms.

 

There are already laws against these weapons on the feds books. The reason it is in the news is the blueprints themselves and whether the feds can restrict their existence. Are you advocating for super-duper duplicatitive laws against these guns or something?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2018/07/10/court-victory-legalizes-3d-printable-gun-blueprints/amp/

[rolmops]

5 hours ago, Kingfisher06 said:

 

There are already laws against these weapons on the feds books. The reason it is in the news is the blueprints themselves and whether the feds can restrict their existence. Are you advocating for super-duper duplicatitive laws against these guns or something?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2018/07/10/court-victory-legalizes-3d-printable-gun-blueprints/amp/

Both the first and second amendment have lots of  hotly debated opinions within the legal profession. In my observations the first amendment legal opinions are plentiful and differ wildly. The second amendment has about as many different opinions as the first. To me both are a can of worms, but 2 different cans of worms.

I am not advocating anything because I really do not understand this free speech and gun rights issue. Mostly I am worried because this seems to be the beginning of a "Brave New World"

Edited August 10, 2018 by rolmops

[Sk8man]

The Founding Fathers were incredibly intelligent and had great insight, but they couldn't have possibly seen ahead to the complex issues involved in current times, nor would they have been fully prepared for some of the opinions by the various courts. The Constitution is one of the most wonderful documents of all time but it is a struggle interpreting it adequately in this crazy world of ours with current day.political influences bearing on the decisions. The problem is not with the Constitution itself it is with our complex society with its various interest groups and their agendas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rolmops]

One more comment .

The constitution clearly states that we all have the right to life.

Sometimes first and second amendments debates completely ignore this basic constitutional right.

What takes prevalence? Original constitution or amendments?

[WickedGood]

the 5th Amendment, ratified in 1791, says that no person can be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.

the Declaration of Independence states that all people have the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

 

 

 

PS: There is No Law against Manufacturing Firearms.  You can whittle one in your home if you wish. Same with Ammo, Bake up all you want if its for Personal use.   If you intend to Produce them FOR SALE, then you must get a License from the BATF. 

 

How many of you know that if you Make Fishing Tackle that you must pay a Federal Tax if you intend to sell it.  Again, make as many lures, rods, reels as you want if its for personal use.

 

A tax of 10% of the sale price is imposed on many articles of sport fishing equipment sold by the manufacturer. This includes any parts or accessories sold on or in connection with the sale of those articles.

Pay this tax with Form 720. No tax deposits are required.

Sport fishing equipment includes all the following items.

1. Fishing rods and poles (and component parts), fishing reels, fly fishing lines, and other fishing lines not over 130 pounds test, fishing spears, spear guns, and spear tips.
2. Items of terminal tackle, including leaders, artificial lures, artificial baits, artificial flies, fishing hooks, bobbers, sinkers, snaps, drayles, and swivels (but not including natural bait or any item of terminal tackle designed for use and ordinarily used on fishing lines not described in (1)).
3. The following items of fishing supplies and accessories: fish stringers, creels, bags, baskets, and other containers designed to hold fish, portable bait containers, fishing vests, landing nets, gaff hooks, fishing hook disgorgers, and dressing for fishing lines and artificial flies.
4. Fishing tip-ups and tilts.
5. Fishing rod belts, fishing rodholders, fishing harnesses, fish fighting chairs, fishing outriggers, and fishing downriggers.

See Revenue Ruling 88-52 in Cumulative Bulletin 1988-1 for a more complete description of the items of taxable equipment.

 

https://taxmap.irs.gov/taxmap/pubs/p510-033.htm

 

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by WickedGood

[chinook35]

2 hours ago, rolmops said:

One more comment .

The constitution clearly states that we all have the right to life.

Sometimes first and second amendments debates completely ignore this basic constitutional right.

What takes prevalence? Original constitution or amendments?

I really can’t find a connection here  unless you are trying to spout anti gun rhetoric  a gun , like a fishing pole is a tool  it will not , of its own accord deprive anyone of life or liberty  the second amendment to the constitution gives the right to keep and bear arms and it shall NOT be infringed upon  if you are anti gun , you are on the wrong venue. 

[whaler1]

I love my guns!

[BSmaster]

X2

 

To quote Hilldog.  This is a big nothing burger.  

 

A bigger deal Is regulating free speech.  I don’ Follow Infowars but that banishment is scary because of where it can lead us as a nation.