Looking for advice for a new rod spread for next year.

[Hachimo]

Hey fellas, this was my first year fishing Lake Ontario.  I did well for a rookie but now i want to experiment with rod spreads for next year to cover more area.  I spent alot of money this year between buying a boat,riggers, and gear so my budget was limited.  I run a25ft trophy. My spread consisted of 4 riggers with two rods on each with occasional cheaters. If lake was rough then Two riggers were out.  Durring the winter i would like to further equip my boat and purchase more gear.  My thoughts were putting a planer mast on each side then running 250-500copper 40ft or so of each side of boat. Then a dipsey off each side maybe on 2nd setting. Then keeping the riggers behind the boat.  This probly sounds like non-sence to some of u seasoned vets but any inmput would be greatly appreciated. Also if anyone has any copper combos there lookin to sell i would be interested. PM me and let me what ya got.  

Thanks guys

[John E Powell]

Two riggers, one rod each. 1-2 wire divers per side (reg and mag size for deep and slide diver for upper), 1 weighted steel per side (rather than copper) off big boards or lead core (when fish are shallower) off inline boards.

Keep in mind that often 2 well run rigger rods will outfish 4 riggers and 8 rods that are overpowering your presentation.

Spreading out a pattern with a couple rods each riggers, divers, and weighted long lines will up your catch on big kings that are often put off by two much gear being pulled through a small area of water.


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

[Hachimo]

Thank you for the info. So my thoughts are somewhat on the right track.  I over presentated my spread my last few trips and it showed. Every boat around me was killing fish and i was skunked until i ran only two rigger rods

[bandrus1]

U were running 8 rods on riggers?

 

Wow

[Hachimo]

Yes, that was all i had to work with last year.  8 only on calm days but the occasional 8 rod tangled was a nightmare.  

[fisherdude]

The more rods / lines out or wider spread . The boat control is critical. so you need a second guy or a third guy that could help set lines. driving the boat standing in the center of the boat and looking out backwards will end up in mess fast . I think the above Post and yourself has answered your own question. I find having a positive attitude and the will to experiment and learn gose a long ways.

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[Missdemeanor]

Simple spreads are proven to produce more fish....
For instance, I used to run 5 riggers. As the zebra mussels have cleared the water, the fish can be spooky. I switched to 3 riggers and as an average i took more rigger shots.... My theory is less cable hum in the water column.
90% of the time I run fixed or slide cheaters in order to get more lures in the strike zone.
Divers- usually only one per side....
Junk lines- if it's rough- one copper or lead core ( depending on where the temp is) down the chute.... If conditions are ok ( boat traffic or waves) then I will run one on each side off Otter Boats..
Simple spreads mean less tangles, your lures are in the strike zone longer, and easier to manage if you get more than one fish on... Tight lines

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[Big Spoon]

11 hours ago, John E Powell said:

Two riggers, one rod each. 1-2 wire divers per side (reg and mag size for deep and slide diver for upper), 1 weighted steel per side (rather than copper) off big boards or lead core (when fish are shallower) off inline boards.

Keep in mind that often 2 well run rigger rods will outfish 4 riggers and 8 rods that are overpowering your presentation.

Spreading out a pattern with a couple rods each riggers, divers, and weighted long lines will up your catch on big kings that are often put off by two much gear being pulled through a small area of water.


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

x2 on this.  Less is more, especially with you have a big king going ape sh*t behind your boat.  

[sherman brown]

if your going to run divers I suggest getting the lite bite slide diver. I use mine like a dipsy without using the slide part. just tie to the front then tie your leader to a small split ring and lace it through the back going through the lite bite arm. but they make a kit that weighs 7 oz's and a big ring and they will get deep in a hurry.

[Firechief48]

On October 12, 2018 at 6:41 AM, Missdemeanor said:

Simple spreads are proven to produce more fish....
For instance, I used to run 5 riggers. As the zebra mussels have cleared the water, the fish can be spooky. I switched to 3 riggers and as an average i took more rigger shots.... My theory is less cable hum in the water column.
90% of the time I run fixed or slide cheaters in order to get more lures in the strike zone.
Divers- usually only one per side....
Junk lines- if it's rough- one copper or lead core ( depending on where the temp is) down the chute.... If conditions are ok ( boat traffic or waves) then I will run one on each side off Otter Boats..
Simple spreads mean less tangles, your lures are in the strike zone longer, and easier to manage if you get more than one fish on... Tight lines

Sent from my VS996 using Lake Ontario United mobile app
 

X3, most of the time I run a chute copper, sometimes one off each side. One thing I do believe in is the free sliders with flutter spoons, usually Evil Eyes. You cover more of the upper part of the zone and I get a lot of steelies and later cohos with them. 

[bout time]

I run a 25’ trophy. My setup is 3 riggers across the back and then rod holders on each gunnel. I always run the two corner riggers and dispys off each side. The center rigger either goes in or the rod holder can be used for copper down the chute.

My best setup all season was three riggers, 2 dipsys on the starboard side, one dipsy on the port side and a copper off the board on the port side.




‘Bout Time
Mike

[Sk8man]

All good advice. Keep the following phrase in the back of your mind: "Less is more". There are times when a large spread can work but the key to it all is having a basic plan for the specific specie (s) you are targeting, and pay close attention to detail to see what they are responding to (or not). You can always selectively add to the mix as your plan or results change but get the most out of what you put out there by concentrating on actually fishing rather than loading up the water with a huge spread. There can be a lot of value in being as "stealthy" as possible too with the increased water clarity as mentioned and it probably outweighs the tactic of loading up the water with objects.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Sk8man

[jth21usa]

I've gone from running too many on my old 21 to running much less on my 31. What I've found is that running more than 6-8 lines does more damage than good. On a calm day I'll run the 3 riggers 2 dipsy's off each side (one mag, one regular) than a long line down the shoot. If there is a moderate wind or current the middle downrigger gets pulled and two of dispy's. Honestly I find catch ration has very little to do with how many rods are out there. Also if you do catch something and you have a crap load of lines out good luck getting them to the boat. 

[Hachimo]

I appreciate all the help guys. This site and you guys on it really helped a first time Lake Ontario fisherman put fish on the boat and hopefully more next year.  I recently built two planer masts out of my old cannon hand riggers so my plan is to send the big boards out with 300 copper on the end of each board then a dipsy off each side and one rod off each rigger on back corners of boat and leaving the shoot open to land fish.  That depends on lake conditions also.  

[TyeeTanic]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:56 PM, John E Powell said:

Two riggers, one rod each. 1-2 wire divers per side (reg and mag size for deep and slide diver for upper), 1 weighted steel per side (rather than copper) off big boards or lead core (when fish are shallower) off inline boards.

Keep in mind that often 2 well run rigger rods will outfish 4 riggers and 8 rods that are overpowering your presentation.

Spreading out a pattern with a couple rods each riggers, divers, and weighted long lines will up your catch on big kings that are often put off by two much gear being pulled through a small area of water.


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

 

I agree with this.

[Knotlost Charters]

You should get a couple of dipsy/ slide divers and learn them. Stop there, limit your spread to a couple of downriggers max and 2 slide divers and learn that set up really well. When you can run that and get no tangles then add something down the middle like weighted steel or copper, lead etc that will depend on the depth you are looking for. 

 

For me in rough weather riggers are not as good as slid divers and long lines (sometimes in rough weather I don't even use riggers), calm weather is different again with a different set of goals.  Remember each boat is different and what works is very different on each boat. They handle different, move different, waves effect them differently as does wind affect them differently. Captains drive them different, one guy 3 mph can be your 2.5 and that is a big deal sometimes. Learn yours, and develop your own game. 

 

Riggers are the easiest to run, then slide divers next, and copper is the wicked devil from hell for beginners, but it catches fish so you need to learn it eventually (maybe try weighed steel I hear is good) . Have a learning plan, don't go at it willy-nilly you will not get anywhere fast. (don't run copper and lead together when starting out, they are like two horny teenagers that will intertwine in ways you can't believe ) 

 

Learn each system separately and how it works. You will accomplish more in a few years than other do in 4X the time.  Reread the posts above, there is a common thread more is not better..... Learn to visualize your spread both in-depth width and length.  For example, a copper 600 feet out, is not closely related to a downrigger that's 20 feet off the ball. If the copper fires and the rigger don't, can you get another copper in? With no tangles? do you need a board or just run them offsides?  Or can you get a slider to the same place and get them to hit that as well? Or maybe if you don't have another copper, will a torpedo on a lead line, will that do it?   If you catch a fish on (whatever) and it tangles in the other lines and you lose it, the whole spread needs to be re-thunk. 

 

these are the "skills" to work on, but you can't with a shotgun approach. 

[Hachimo]

Wow. Talk about putting some time in to explain the spread knotlost.  Thank you for the in depth advice.  Yes i have it beat into my head now that more rods isnt always the best. As a rookie capt. i thought the more more tods the better the chance of hookin up.  But i over presented the area below deterring fish from the presentation.  The more time i spead on here reading old forums and the answers from u guys and videos i watch im building up confidence for spring browns.  Kills me to c a snow covered boat.  

[Sk8man]

Knotlost did a splendid job of summarizing and boiling down what I imagine is years worth of experience dealing with this stuff

Edited December 12, 2018 by Sk8man

[TyeeTanic]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:36 PM, Hachimo said:

Hey fellas, this was my first year fishing Lake Ontario.  I did well for a rookie but now i want to experiment with rod spreads for next year to cover more area.  I spent alot of money this year between buying a boat,riggers, and gear so my budget was limited.  I run a25ft trophy. My spread consisted of 4 riggers with two rods on each with occasional cheaters. If lake was rough then Two riggers were out.  Durring the winter i would like to further equip my boat and purchase more gear.  My thoughts were putting a planer mast on each side then running 250-500copper 40ft or so of each side of boat. Then a dipsey off each side maybe on 2nd setting. Then keeping the riggers behind the boat.  This probly sounds like non-sence to some of u seasoned vets but any inmput would be greatly appreciated. Also if anyone has any copper combos there lookin to sell i would be interested. PM me and let me what ya got.  

Thanks guys

 

Doesn't sound like non-sense to me. You could still run the outer riggers with dipseys out, as long as you swivel the booms to be closer to the boat. Otherwise, yeah, just use the back two.

Other than what you said, I would rather be using leadcore in cold water. The fish are high, and copper could get too deep, even the 250.  I'd save the copper for July/Aug.

[scobar]

I agree lees is more, but think of this setup to explain less is more productive.

 

Keep 1 dipsy on each side with a spoon (2 lures)

2 riggers, now the less is more gets interesting. Each rigger has a flasher, 3-5 teasers and a meat rig. Lets assume 5 teasers, so each rigger now has a total 7 lures in the water.

 

Total that all up this 4 rod spread and you have 16 lures (yes not all are lures) in the water.

 

Compare that to a 8 rod spread with 1 lure each, just saying

I do run the above 4 rod deal quite often and it works

[Fat Trout]

with all of this said. Who you are fishing with matters a lot too.    You have Fishing solo, fishing with guest(s) who know their sh**, guests who at least don't get in the way and guests who make it harder than fishing solo.  

Edited December 15, 2018 by Fat Trout

[Hachimo]

6 hours ago, Fat Trout said:

with all of this said. Who you are fishing with matters a lot too.    You have Fishing solo, fishing with guest(s) who know their sh**, guests who at least don't get in the way and guests who make it harder than fishing solo.  

After one year of fishing i can 100% agree with ya.  Normally the wife runs the boat and does a dam good job. I run the gear and when we hook up she brings them in.  One weekend she had to work so i brought an old friend who just got in the way and after he had a few drinks became a liability so that ended the already frustrating trip after fishing 3 hrs.  

[RD9]

I previously ran two divers per side. Braid on outside wire on inside. I found dialing in my wires and concentrating on one per side was better for me. A 10color is a great chute rod and very versatile.  

[Charlie P]

Chute rods? I'm really leary about putting copper or lead down the chute, seems like a recipe for tangle soup. How do you guys lower the risk of tangles?

[scobar]

23 hours ago, Charlie P said:

Chute rods? I'm really leary about putting copper or lead down the chute, seems like a recipe for tangle soup. How do you guys lower the risk of tangles?

 

I float it back a ways with a balloon tied to the line, pops of pretty easy when you reel in. There is a float made for that purpose, but I've been doing this balloon deal for 35years and it works for me