Mag 10 downrigger

[jb2c]

Hi all. New here. I'm looking at purchasing a Cannon Mag 10 and am looking for info on both the Mag 10 and downriggers generally. I've fished manual downriggers several years, and also use a Penn 825 electric. But you Great Lakes guys are without doubt the authorities on downriggers.

First question, how to tell if the Mag 10 is an older, slower retrieve unit or the newer and faster one? Guy I'm meeting this weekend to look at the downrigger says it's still unassembled and never used, but he doesn't see any model number on the downrigger, and it's not in a box. So he's unsure what model it is. He bought it from a friend that won it at a fishing tournament just last year. So you'd think it would be last year's model. But I thought they started putting names on the Cannon downriggers in either 2005 or 2006. So it doesn't make much sense. Also, this one has no swivel base and no plugs (just wire ends) with it, both of which I thought were included in recent years. I'm thinking maybe the fishing tournament gave away an unused, but older model, Mag 10 as a prize. I'm not crazy on buying anything with a slower retrieve rate than my Penn 825 has. But the price is right on this one... $200 for what I'm told is a new unit. But the missing swivel base and lack of plugs (just bare wire ends) does concern me as far as it's being new. I'm thinking it's the slower retrieve rate, older Mag 10. Would you still buy it at that price if so?

Second question, I've seen in the past stuff for sale that you could drop down your downrigger line to read the temperature at the level of the ball or planer. To tell where a thermocline might be. I'd like to try that this season, but don't recall any brand names, or where to go to buy something like this. Any help there? Guess I could just rig a string, clip, and drop down any old therometer. But I believe there's something out there made just for this. Seems like it also registered trolling speed too.

Next question... would you buy the swivel base if I get the Mag 10? I will use a gimbal mount for it, so couldn't I just pick it up slightly and turn it in the rod holder just as easily as using a swivel mount? Checked Ebay and they want $70-80 just for the swivel mount. That sounds $$$ to me, given all the other equipment I'm having to buy right now.

Do you guys use planers up there? Most guys here use them, and I was wondering about how much pressure is exerted by a 16 oz vs 24 oz vs 32 oz planer (Ol Salty 16/24/32 sizes). An old charter captain told me they're all the same, because the blade size is the same. He said the weight didn't really make any difference unless you were going really slow. Water pressure on the blade makes the planer go down. Makes sense to me, but wondered if you guys could confirm.

Last question, has anyone figured out any way to see what the system actually looks like below the water? I'm concerned about what the whole thing looks like to a fish. Alot of stuff in the water when you run the cables, planers or ball, lines from the rods, etc. Seems that would scare a fish away just as quickly as attracting them. Always thought I'd like to drop a camera down there and see what it all looks like. Anyone ever try that?

Thanks for any input,

JB

[rail bird]

The quick answer is that $200 is great price fast or slow. It is rare that you find a working one cheaper than that. How deep do you fish? Slow retrieve only starts to bother me below 70 or 80 feet.

I don't know how you are going to mount it but just make sure it's not going to fall in the water.

We don't worry about the cannon balls, wires and other stuff on most days. The fish don't seem to mind. If it is slow we might go to dipsy's copper or lead core if the fish are shy.

Good luck

[rail bird]

Just realized what you ment by planers. We do not use them up on the great lakes as the dipsy divers work for us. If you are comparing salt water to fresh water trolling note that we run slower than the salt water guy's. A planer would work on the great lakes but you have to it run straight off the back of a boat and with dipsys we run off the side to keep clear of the downriggers off the back.

[jb2c]

I'd be pulling pretty slow, but not how fast you consider 'slow'. I'll be pulling at 3.5-5 knots, or around 4-6mph. What speeds do you guys pull?

The other thing different is the size of the line. I'll be pulling either 100lb or 130lb mono. And jumbo size ballyhoo. Not sure dipsys would pull that size line or bait. I've never tried them. I do have a Davis 'Fish Seeker' in the garage that I think is the same thing as a dipsy. Might give it a try on a trial run.

Well, sounds like I should buy the Mag 10 this w/e regardless of what model it is. But I'm not sure I'd be happy with the slow retrieve rate. Guess I'll get it and try it out and see. Where can I buy the plugs for it? Will at least have to buy those, as he said it just has bare wires coming off the downrigger cord.

Do you guys typically run the downrigger balls? I'd guess at 4 knots, the ball works just as well as the planer would, although I've never tried to pull them for other than king mackerel fishing.

[rail bird]

Our normal speed is only 2 to 2.5 mph. I do run up around 4 mph at times but you get a lot of blow back on the down riggers. Most of us run cannon balls but if you are going real fast they may not work that well. I think you have to run the riggers straight off the transom at those speeds

I don't think dipseys will work that well if you are going for big Kings or wahoo. they might be ok for blues or spanish. Use braid like you would for a planner.

Most of the ocean guys skip Ballyhoo on the surface or close too it. The two types of trolling are quite different. I never have been on an ocean boat that used a downrigger although I have seen a few equiped with them.

Where are you fishing?

[jb2c]

Fish out of North Carolina. I'm targeting bluefin tuna, and am changing things around some this winter. The line blowback is one of the things I'm concerned with.

Wow, 2 to 2.5mph. That's slow. I don't think our ballyhoo would have much action at all that slow. Have to make that bait look good! But big bluefin are usually lazy, so you want to pull as slow as possible while still having good swimming action for the bait.

Any idea about the temperature thing for use on a downrigger?

JB

[chinook]

The temp device you are referring to is the GMT 40 -you could Google it for further info. Don't know who sells them now. I do know at one time Cabela's did. Maybe still do ? As far as the models, I believe the new Cannon's are listed as HS-for HI Speed. The Mag 10 is a dependable unit. The older models at 80 feet per minute, are not the fastest by any stretch, but is the very rigger I run my speed and temp off of. I don't want to run that unit at 250 any way. Bottom line, at that price , I would consider it strongly. As far as a swivel base purchase. If you plan to run it straight back off your transom, no need. But if in fact you want to swing in out to use as an out down, then yes I would. Depends on how you plan to deploy it. -Duane

[rail bird]

I have fished on charters from the Outer Banks in the summer. The Tuna we caught that time of year were yellowfin I think? If the tuna were active and feeding There is not much too it other than getting over them with Ballyhoo. There trouble is when they were down there is nothing you could troll in the water that they would take. The crew told me that tuna have such good eye sight that they can see any fishing line you put out. What we were able to do is take them with a kite program skipping weighted squid like lure over the surface. Nothing cooler than seeing a big tuna jump out of the water to take a bait hanging off a kite.

Bluefin might be a different game. I don't know much about how you target them.

[jb2c]

Well, I bought the Mag 10. That's when the bad news started. Used it the first time and it worked fine, but the noise from the wire that was on there was horrible. I'm tuna fishing, and that sound in the water just isn't acceptable. Took it home and put braid on top of the wire. Took it back to the boat and on the second trip, it wouldn't work at all. Turns out the metal wire has to be in the water for the unit to operate. Should have realized that, since it has the Auto Stop. Took some braid off, so that the wire would be in the water a little bit. Took it back for the third trip, and no electricity. My fault, as I had not cleaned/greased the contacts after I installed the cables. Took care of that problem on a maintenance day. Next trip, fourth trip, and the darn clutch wouldn't come close to holding after letting out 200' of line. Had to handline in 200 feet of line back on the reel. Seems like it just isn't meant to be with this downrigger. In the meantime, my Penn electric has caused me no problems at all this whole season. Nor last season either. I had high hopes for the Mag 10, but so far, a big disappointment.

I can't use the Auto Stop unless I have that terrible noise in the water. Or fish a set amount of braid so that I can get just a few feet of wire into the water. I'm going to try the cork trick on the wire and see how that does. But from past experience, it greatly reduces the noise, but doesn't get rid of it completely. Also, I need to use braid as it gets the planer down deeper. But to use braid instead of cable, I'll have to install an On/Off switch to make the unit work with braid. Which means I'll have to be careful about stopping it manually once the planer clears the water. Cannon warned me that it could burn out the motor, even though it has a breaker on it. It could also damage/break the plastic roller tip on the Cannon boom. The Penn has a metal end on the boom, and it has always just thrown the breaker when the planer came up to the tip. Also, my opening the Cannon housing to install the switch will void the warranty. On top of all this, I've now got to send the unit back in to fix whatever is wrong with the clutch system. Can you tell I'm not a happy Cannon owner??

Reason for all this ranting is mainly to ask if anyone knows anything about the Cannon clutch system. Is this a common problem? Can I maybe fix it myself without having to send it off for repair? I took the knob off and there are two pieces under the knob. A washer with bearings in it. And another flat washer. The flat washer looked to be badly grooved. There was also scoring on the flat metal part in the body of the unit that it fits to. Any guidance/advice would be appreciated. The Cannon manual unit I have has been working just fine. But this Mag 10 has not met expectations.

JB

[Richard]

You can get all the parts you need at

http://www.fish307.com/

or

http://www.captgarys.com/

Good luck. I am sorry you are not having a good experience with your Mag 10. Out of the six I have owned I had one that was a little trouble but cannon took care of it at no charge.

Richard

[Throbbin Rods]

Open up the case on the rigger and remove the little circuit card that controls the auto stop, and run the wiring straight to the switch. That way you can use any kind of line you want. Auto stop has never impressed me that much. I fish alone a lot or with one other guy. I just hit the up button and can easily get back to the rigger in time to keep it from running up to the pulley. Never had an issue in 25 years of down rigger fishing

BTW, I have 4 of those Mag 10 of 1985 vintage, and the only thing I have ever done to them is switches. They appear to me to be bullet proof.

Also, someone told me, that if you wrap a rubber band around the cable it sill stop the downrigger hum.

Throbbin Rods

[mcds7]

not sure why so many people feel that line hum is a bad thing.it has been said by many charter captains that line hum can actually draw fish into the spread.that sometimes salmon will pick up this vibration from the line hum through their lateral line and actually interpret it(or confuse it ) as a possible school of bait.

i,ve never felt that it has had a negative impact on my fishing.just a thought!

mike m

[Tim Bromund]

same here, it just wouldn't feel right without those riggers singing.

Tim