Copper

[jth21usa]

Trying copper again this year, getting a 300 and a 400. 4 questions:

 

1. 32lb or 45lb 

2. Is there one brand that is better than another 

3. What is the best way to connect it to the leader and backer?

4. How long of a leader?

 

thanks 

 

justin

[NymphO]

I don't want to go off topic, but have you considered the weighted steel ? Appears to have a ton of benefits over copper.

[Legacy]

53 minutes ago, jth21usa said:

Trying copper again this year, getting a 300 and a 400. 4 questions:

 

1. 32lb or 45lb 

2. Is there one brand that is better than another 

3. What is the best way to connect it to the leader and backer?

4. How long of a leader?

 

thanks 

 

justin

 

32 or 45? advantages and disadvantages to both. I personally only run 45. Its dive curve is steeper and it holds depth better. 32 is a bit easier to work with.

Im a Blood Run guy all the way. http://www.bloodruntackle.com/

leader/copper/backer can be done with a swivel or with an albright knot

my leaders start at about 36'

 

 

Read this...

 

[jth21usa]

44 minutes ago, NymphO said:

I don't want to go off topic, but have you considered the weighted steel ? Appears to have a ton of benefits over copper.

I ran weighted steel last year without much success, the those reels got hit with haul cleaner and got killed, going back to basics. 

[UNREEL]

11 hours ago, jth21usa said:

I ran weighted steel last year without much success, the those reels got hit with haul cleaner and got killed, going back to basics. 

??

[NymphO]

I ran weighted steel last year without much success, the those reels got hit with haul cleaner and got killed, going back to basics. 

If you don't want to clog this thread up, could you pm or post what your issues were with the steel ? Thanks

[scobar]

Blood run 32# 150, 250, 300, 350, 450, 550, knots as mentioned and 50’ floro leads @ 20#


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[Norm Moser]

jht21, your going to get a lot of different answers to the questions  you asked and they are all right for that person and how they fish. I use 32 lb Blood run copper if you look at there dive chart 32lb and 45 lb run close. Now, I run 32lb copper for lake Erie walleye and for salmon and love it for both. for a backer I use 50lb test power pro may seem heavy but I want my boards to come back to me every time with no problems. As far as connecting to my leader to my copper or to the backing I use a albright knot and I put a drop of supper glue on it so the power pro cant slip. for us leaders are 30 ft. again that what I run. good luck hope it helps.

[jth21usa]

2 hours ago, NymphO said:

14 hours ago, jth21usa said:

I ran weighted steel last year without much success, the those reels got hit with haul cleaner and got killed, going back to basics. 

If you don't want to clog this thread up, could you pm or post what your issues were with the steel ? Thanks

Sure thing, the biggest issue I had with steel is I didn’t catch anything ....

[TyeeTanic]

54 minutes ago, Norm Moser said:

jht21, your going to get a lot of different answers to the questions  you asked and they are all right for that person and how they fish. I use 32 lb Blood run copper if you look at there dive chart 32lb and 45 lb run close. Now, I run 32lb copper for lake Erie walleye and for salmon and love it for both. for a backer I use 50lb test power pro may seem heavy but I want my boards to come back to me every time with no problems. As far as connecting to my leader to my copper or to the backing I use a albright knot and I put a drop of supper glue on it so the power pro cant slip. for us leaders are 30 ft. again that what I run. good luck hope it helps.

 

That's basically how my buddy does it for the backing to copper, and he also heat shrinks wire tubing over the knot, so it doesn't fray as it goes through the rod eyelets.  For the leader to copper, I think he went to a micro swivel. I'd imagine that takes strain off the copper, given paddles like Spin Doctors can create a mess if they themselves get tangled up, and the main swivel is locked up.

[Yankee Troller]

1. 32lb or 45lb - 45lb is the most common

2. Is there one brand that is better than another No, but A-TOM-MIK is the local guy who supplies a lot of Copper, and he does a lot for this fishery

3. What is the best way to connect it to the leader and backer? Albright knot or a 60lb test Swivel.

4. How long of a leader? 10-50'. There is no golden rule.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Yankee Troller

[Gator]

I don't know whether it's true or not, but I've heard that one of the properties of copper that helps to make it effective is that it's electrically conductive, and that a shorter leader can help tap into that advantage. A short leader also transmits the "undulations" that you get from speed and current more effectively to the lure. To me, however, you have to weigh a short leader against the shock resistance that a longer leader provides, given that copper doesn't have any give. We compromise by running our leaders at 15', and we catch fish. Since I haven't test this directly, I can't say whether we catch more or less fish than we would with a longer leader. I do know that when I demo'd a 5' leader we broke off more than a few fish, so I wouldn't recommend going too short.

[Silver Fox]

Actually I think copper has a lot of "give" due to the fact it has a pretty good bow in the middle while dragging. JMO

Silverfoxcharters.net

[RD9]

32 minutes ago, Silver Fox said:

Actually I think copper has a lot of "give" due to the fact it has a pretty good bow in the middle while dragging. JMO

Silverfoxcharters.net
 

I agree I believe when I first started using it and even so with 10 colors I set my drag to light. Once tightened up my hook up rate was better. It’s a long way behind boat and with a mono leader. I have always run 40ft to 50 ft leaders by years end they are much shorter. 

[Silver Fox]

Also, have you ever noticed that hook up rates are better when they are on the boards? I do. I believe the lack of a release when it's down the chute causes many swings and misses.

Silverfoxcharters.net

[RD9]

We run inline boards for walleye not much on coppers because we fish lake o till late May early June. Or hook up rate on inline I believe is much better but you see every rap on a shoot rod and everyone jumps out of there seat when that one goes off. So many times friends and or clients see that shoot rod go and jump up and grab it immediately. On our inlines bites are not as visible a lot of times I’ll see what I think is a strike only to wait till board get pulled again. I think waiting on a shoot rod in a sense is important I believe A Fish will hit and miss in a sense only to jerk it away by someone grabbing rod before the second strike. My long winded opion because it’s ****ty out and I’m bored. 

[Tyee II]

Those are some great observations guys. What you are saying makes a lot of sense. I don't run a chute rod and always try to set my inline board drags as loose as I can without slippage which makes it easier to detect a strike in the waves. How do you guys set your board rod drags? 

[UNREEL]

Normal fish fighting drag setting for us. The braid backing is set pretty tight in the Scotty releases to take the weight of the copper.  Not alot of misses. 

Although some days there's not a lot of hits either.  

[Sk8man]

One of the things not yet mentioned is the effect of length of the copper being used. The longer the length the more bow there is in the copper. The copper doesn't really stretch it is rather slack created by the bowing. An additional thing that happens is that with spoons or sticks run on a leader off the copper the lure lifts upward somewhat because of the weight of the bow in the copper and the longer the copper the more it lifts so a lot of times you may not be running where you think. I realized this when using the Fishhawk TD and it would probably be picked up by the Smarttrol as well. The drag setting can become important because if set too loose the slack in the copper may  not be picked up quickly enough or tightly enough and the fish may either not be hooked well, or it can briefly use the slack to its advantage and get off. I generally go with a 20 ft leader and depending on what I am running on it may use either mono or fluoro. I use mono for deeper copper presentations because a little stretch is desired especially with attractors. I use fluoro for clearer water upper level (shallower) water situations running single lures (spoons or sticks) because it is stiffer and may give a bit more action to the lure and may be less visible. With a 250 or 300 ft of copper and a 20 ft. leader any lure is far enough away from the boat so having a very long leader doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose in my view as it may also lessen the action of the lure.Just my way of doing it I guess but it seems to work.

[Silver Fox]

One of the things not yet mentioned is the effect of length of the copper being used. The longer the length the more bow there is in the copper. The copper doesn't really stretch it is rather slack created by the bowing. An additional thing that happens is that with spoons or sticks run on a leader off the copper the lure lifts upward somewhat because of the weight of the bow in the copper and the longer the copper the more it lifts so a lot of times you may not be running where you think. I realized this when using the Fishhawk TD and it would probably be picked up by the Smarttrol as well. The drag setting can become important because if set too loose the slack in the copper may  not be picked up quickly enough or tightly enough and the fish may either not be hooked well, or it can briefly use the slack to its advantage and get off. I generally go with a 20 ft leader and depending on what I am running on it may use either mono or fluoro. I use mono for deeper copper presentations because a little stretch is desired especially with attractors. I use fluoro for clearer water upper level (shallower) water situations running single lures (spoons or sticks) because it is stiffer and may give a bit more action to the lure and may be less visible. With a 250 or 300 ft of copper and a 20 ft. leader any lure is far enough away from the boat so having a very long leader doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose in my view as it may also lessen the action of the lure.Just my way of doing it I guess but it seems to work.

Yup, I mentioned the bowing.

Silverfoxcharters.net

[RD9]

On 1/31/2019 at 7:42 AM, Tyee II said:

Those are some great observations guys. What you are saying makes a lot of sense. I don't run a chute rod and always try to set my inline board drags as loose as I can without slippage which makes it easier to detect a strike in the waves. How do you guys set your board rod drags? 

I creep my inline board using drag. I tighten to the point that when a good fish hits you hear the drag as the board gets pulled back. On my coppers I run a 50 ft section of mono before my braid backing. Just because it’s easier to handle and easier on inline board realeases. On my cores I use 20 lb big game on cores under 7 cores. On my long cores usually braid followed by 50 ft of 20 lb mono all to 15lb seaguar leader. I use these same setups for Kings and Eyes. Only thing I might change is leaders up to 20 on kings, 12 for Erie. This year I spooled 3, 7 colors with 80 lb braid from Cabela’s for backing.  I was able to get 700 ft on a Diawia 47 before 7 color stealth core. 

 

After I spool these I take them and I have a piece of wire tied to a tree. I then stretch them all they way out in the field and reel them in tight. It’s intertaining for the nieghbors. “Hey look there is goofy Ron playing fishing in the field”. Honestly the nieghbors are like what are you fishing for in field.   I then explain that I stretching out lead cores to test all my knots and get as much backing on as possible. 

[Tyee II]

Thanks for the advice. Funny...my neighbors call me goofy Ron too, except my line is hooked to the hitch on my truck, LOL.

[jth21usa]

Has anyone ever been able to fit a 400 on a 45 reel using braid backer?

[Legacy]

8 hours ago, jth21usa said:

Has anyone ever been able to fit a 400 on a 45 reel using braid backer?

 

45# copper??? No way. 250' is the max on a 45 series that I would recommend.

 

 

[Silver Fox]

Also, who in their right mind would use a 55 reel for a 500 copper with only 100' of backing? I have a 55 with 450ish on it and my arse puckers when a king rips that with 250' of backing on it!

Silverfoxcharters.net