3 Rod letter(s)

[LongLine]

Leo Roth is the outdoors writer for the Rochester Democrat & Chronicle:

Mr. Roth,

I’m writing this to make you aware that there is a growing interest among Salmon/Trout trollers urging the NYSDEC to enact a special Sportfishing regulation involving legalizing the use of 3 rods for those actively trolling on the open waters of Lake Ontario for Salmon & Trout.

The aim is to increase the number of return trips that people will make to our fine fishery. The mechanism is to provide the means to potentially increase one’s chances of catching a Salmon/Trout on the open water.

I am an engineer by profession and a weekend recreational troller that launches out of the Genny. I have seen firsthand, many two or three man crews return to the launch after 6-8 hours out there, totally frustrated and vowing to not come back and/or take up different forms of recreation. Some have been from out of state. Additionally if we look at the DEC’s annual Lake Ontario creel survey, we see that there are some highly successful fishermen out there but the averages are nowhere near the creel limit, therefore there are many more that catch nothing. (The number of fishermen has trended downward in the last 15 years.)

The scenery is beautiful, the air is great but nothing satisfies a fisherman more than to catch a fish. The more satisfied the fisherman is (young or old) the more he’ll be inclined to return. This has considerable social and economic impact for all involved. (Happier fishermen will excitedly relate tales to friends; plan more trips; more fishing related sales; more launches, etc, etc)

As you know trolling for these species on the open water is a completely different type of fishing than when they are in the rivers or for other game fish such as Bass, Walleye or Musky. Salmon & Trout are well dispersed both throughout the water column and over great areas of the lake for a substantial portion of the year and trollers cover great distances in search of them. The potential for an angler to catch a fish, whether he is a soloist, two or 3 man crew, is increased when that additional rod can be added to his spread.

We are proposing a rule similar to Michigan’s 3 Rod Rule for trollers on the Great lakes but with greater definition to prevent any potential exploitation of the fishery. Exploitation is really controlled by creel limits and the Hook/lure/bait/point rules per line anyways. (Not by the number of rods one fishes with.) This proposal advocates no change in the former but does put constraints on the later. The current regulations are old and ambiguous and can be read in a manner that could allow the “rape of mother nature†which we as sportsmen greatly disapprove of.

This proposal originated on the http://www.lakeontariounited website (just add dot com at the end) which is a popular Rochester region Salmon/Trout fishing board with members from all over the lake. (also some from California and Norway). We have been in contact with the DEC Lake Ontario Unit leader along with some regional offices. We have also placed a petition on line at Petitiononline.com/3rrolo/petition.html (just add wwwdot at the beginning)

We invite you to visit the website, discussion, poll & to review the petition and we hope you will join in our effort

Thank you

Tom Bishop

Aka: Tom B. (LongLine)

Tom B.

(LongLine)

edit to change name of thread

[Erbyjoe]

Tom very well done My hats off to you.And remember you have my vote if you ever go in to politics Thanks again

[LongLine]

Mike LeBoeuf is the sports editor of the Palladium Times, which is the Oswego newspaper.

Mr LeBoeuf,

I’m writing this to inform you that there is growing interest among fishermen to urge the NYSDEC to change the current line regulations in favor of a defined 3 Rod Rule for those actively trolling the open waters of Lake Ontario for Salmon/Trout.

The aim is to increase the number of return trips that people will make to our fishery. The strategy is to provide legal means to potentially increase one’s chances of catching a Salmon/Trout on the open water with a regulation similar to the one they have in Michigan.

We are proposing a 3 Rod Rule, similar to Michigan’s, for trollers on the Great lakes with definition and reminders to prevent any potential exploitation of the fishery. Exploitation is really controlled by creel limits and the Hook/lure/bait/point rules per line. (Not by the number of rods one fishes with.) This proposal advocates no change in the creel limit. The current regulations are old and ambiguous and can be read in a manner that could allow the “rape of mother nature†which we as sportsmen frown upon.

By looking at the DEC’s annual Lake Ontario creel survey, we see that there are some highly successful fishermen out there but the averages are nowhere near the creel limit, therefore there are many more that catch nothing. From my personnel contact, I am confident that these frustrated fishermen are the ones that aren’t inclined to return.

Trolling for these species on the open water employs different methods than for Bass, Walleye, & Musky or when they are in the rivers. For a large portion of the year, Salmon & Trout scatter throughout the water column and swim great distances. The potential to catch a fish on the open water increases when another rod can be put in the fisherman’s spread.

This has substantial social and economic impact for all involved. (Parks, hotels, restaurants, camp sites, launch sites, gas stations, tackle shops, guide services, etc, etc) Nothing satisfies a fisherman more than to catch a fish. The more satisfied the fisherman is (young or old) the more he’ll be inclined to return to fish again as well as tell of the excitement (or tall tales) to friends.

This proposal originated on the http://www.lakeontariounited (just add dot com at the end) which is a popular Rochester region Salmon/Trout fishing website with members from all over the lake and a large Oswego area contingent We have been in contact with the DEC Lake Ontario Unit leader along with some regional offices. We have also placed a petition on line at Petitiononline.com/3rrolo/petition.html (just add wwwdot at the beginning)

I encourage you to visit the website, discussion threads, poll & to view the petition and we hope you will join in our effort.

Thank you

Tom Bishop

Aka: Tom B.

Aka: LongLine

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[LongLine]

Maggie Brooks is the County Executive of Monroe County. (My home turf)

Ms Brooks,

I am writing this to inform you and in the hope that you’ll favorably pass this along to the Monroe County Dept of Fisheries. As you know Sportfishing on the open waters of Lake Ontario whether out of Irondequoit, the “Genny†or Braddock’s bay is pretty popular and we have some of the best fishing access areas on the South shore.

There is growing interest among these fishermen to urge the NYSDEC to enact a special Sportfishing regulation involving the legalization of “3 rods†for those actively trolling on the open waters of Lake Ontario for Salmon & Trout. The current rules ambiguously allow “2 lines†for angling, anywhere in the state.

To increase the number of return trips that people make to our fishery is the goal. The rule change will provide legal means to potentially increase one’s chances of catching a Salmon/Trout on the open water with a regulation similar to the one they have in Michigan.

We are proposing a 3 Rod Rule, for trollers on the Great Lakes with definition and reminders to prevent any potential exploitation of the fishery. (Exploitation is really controlled by creel limits and the Hook/lure/bait/point rules per line. Not by the number of rods one fishes with.) This proposal advocates no change in the creel limit. The current regulations are old and ambiguous and can be read in a manner that could allow the “rape of mother nature†which we as sportsmen take a pretty dim view of.

By looking at the DEC’s annual Lake Ontario creel survey, we see that there are some highly successful fishermen out there but the average catch rates are nowhere near the creel limit of 3 per day, therefore there are many more that catch nothing. From my personnel contact, I am confident that these frustrated fishermen are the ones that aren’t inclined to return and they don’t.

This has substantial social and economic impact for everybody. (Parks, restaurants, launch sites, marinas, gas stations, tackle shops, guide services, etc, etc) Nothing satisfies a fisherman more than to catch a fish. The more satisfied the fisherman is (young or old) the more he’ll be inclined to return to fish again as well as spread the word by telling of the excitement (or tall tales) to friends.

Trolling for these species on the open water employs different methods than for Bass, Walleye, & Musky or when the Salmon/Trout are in the rivers. For a large portion of the year, Salmon & Trout scatter throughout the water column and swim great distances. The 2007 NYSDEC Lake Ontario Annual report says the average catch per angler hour is 0.087 Salmon. (sect 2, pg 46) That means it takes the average individual fisherman a lot of hours to catch one fish. (11.5 hours). The potential to catch a fish on the open water increases when another rod can be put in the fisherman’s spread.

This proposal originated on the http://www.lakeontariounited (just add dot com at the end) which is a popular Rochester region Salmon/Trout fishing website with members from all over the lake. We have been in contact with the DEC Lake Ontario Unit leader along with some regional offices. We have also placed a petition on line at Petitiononline.com/3rrolo/petition.html (just add wwwdot at the beginning)

I am a City of Rochester & Monroe county resident, an engineer by profession and a weekend recreational fisherman with a yearly launch pass at Charlotte. I ask you to please take a moment & visit the website, discussion threads, poll & to view the on-line petition and we hope you and the Monroe Dept of Fisheries will join in our effort.

Thank you & Merry Christmas

Tom Bishop

Aka: Tom B.

Aka: LongLine

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[salmonella]

Tom - Thanks from LOTSA for continuing to push this change. I wrote letters today on behalf of LOTSA supporting your proposal to LOSSC, Region 9 DEC Fishery Heads, Niagara County Fishery Advisory Board and both Niagara and Orleans Sport Fishing Promotion heads. We are also working through LOSSC to get it on the agenda for the DEC/Stakeholder meeting this Tuesday. I thought your letters above were very well written and reused alot of what you wrote in the letters. Hopefully the DEC is open to listening to their Stakeholders!

Joe Yaeger- LOTSA President

[LongLine]

Joe,

Feel free to use any of the verbiage. The more people and organizations that take a minute or two to send a note, the better.

Hopefully, they'll do something with it. I’m kind of thinking this might also be a great topic at the State of The Lake meetings.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[stinger]

Hay Tom, thanks for taking so much of your time on this issue. It's really important to so many of us.

As a Finger Lakes troller I would really like to see other lakes included in this endeavor. A new regulation may be easier for the State to change if it's a general rule for trolling. When exceptions are included then it starts to get messy and it will probably just sit in Committee for years. The real pressure for DEC to act on this will come from our Assemblymen. They are the ones who's job is on the line for reelection and they are the ones that can move STUFF through when the pressure is on from their constituents.

Again, I'm behind this regardless of how its presented but will the hundreds of other New York States fishermen care if they are left behind? Tom a lot of LOU members will be reading this and I just wanted to get my point of view out there and hopefully rally the troops . I don't want to come across as being critical of the issue because I'm not. I just want to be included in something that would benefit a lot more fishermen than just those on Lake Ontario. This isn't a single lake issue and I'm sure you'd get a lot more support form the rest of us with a little consideration.

Thanks

[LongLine]

Stinger

I have experience fishing Big-O and relatively little on other lakes. Trolling is the premiere method for targeting the Salmon/Trout on the Great Lakes. Perhaps others do, but I just don't have sufficient data or experience to propose it as a general rule statewide or on other bodies of water.

NYS rule structure is such that it has general statewide rules but then moreso defining those regs according to location or body of water than it does by method of fishing. Changing that structure would be a monumental task.

In Michigan, they probably have the same rule "structure." The 3 Rod Rule was enacted there a couple years ago only on the open water of the Great lakes with some specific restrictions. This year, after a couple yrs of observing results with no detrimental effect, they have opened it up to include all species in those areas. After more observation, will they expand it further in the future to other bodies of water? I don't know, but I hope they expand it every place where it is beneficial.

I've "modeled" the proposal, within the rule structure, similar to what they did as I feel it can be supported with some "heavy-duty" data from the DEC's Annual Lake Ontario report and success on Michigan's Great Lakes. I think if they enact the 3 Rod Rule on Big-O then observe its favorable benefit for a little while, it might make the case even stronger for expansion to our "Inland Great Lakes." (I think Seneca, Canandaigua and even Lake Champlain are bigger than anything inside Michigan.)

In the meantime, I thank every fisherman for his support. This movement is definitely a big step.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[LongLine]

6 NYCRR Part 10, Recreational Fishing. Amendments to regulations pertaining to the management of freshwater sportfish including appropriate adjustments to seasons, creel limits, and size limits. Contact: Shaun Keeler, New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, Bureau of Fisheries, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233. Telephone: 518-402-8924. E-mail: [email protected]

Mr. Keeler

As you are listed on the DEC’s website as the contact for Sportfishing regulation amendments, I am writing this on behalf of myself and many Lake Ontario Salmon/Trout fishermen that favor a Special Regulation for a defined 3 Rod Rule somewhat similar to the one they have in Michigan.

We ask that you take a look and put it on the agenda for proposed amendments to our fishing regulations. The proposal has been sent to the leader of the Lake Ontario Unit, media & local gov’ts and many others have written their regional DEC & Fishery Boards. This proposal recently originated on http://www.lakeontariounited.com (a US site well known by Big-O trollers), with a lot of discussion. We have taken a poll on that site and another on http://www.spoonpullers.com (a well known Canadian site among Big-O trollers). Additionally, we have placed an online petition at http://www.Petitiononline.com/3rrolo/petition.html. The response has been overwhelming favorable.

Among the reasons for favoring the proposal are:

-It will increase the average angler’s potential to catch a Salmon/Trout on the open waters. Although we have many successful fishermen, the annual NYSDEC Boat Creel Surveys indicate there are many more not. Creel Survey catch rates are nowhere near the creel limits. (In order to be considered “average†by the 2007 survey, which indicated a seasonal King catch rate of 0.087 fish per hour, means he averaged 11 hours trolling in order to catch one.)

-Creel limits, seasons and the Hook/Lure/Bait/Point rules control specie exploitation, not the number of rods an angler uses. We frown on exploitation.

-Frustrated fishermen are the ones that don’t return to the fishery. Rather, they go somewhere else or take up some other form of recreation. The yearly number of fishermen, with the exception of a couple of small upward blips, has trended downwards.

-The current statewide regs allow each angler to use “two lines with or without rods.†This has been in effect since before Salmon/Trout were introduced to Lake Ontario. Trolling for these species on the open water employs different methods fishing than for Bass & Musky or when the Salmon/Trout are in the rivers. A Special Reg for actively trolling for Salmon/Trout is in order and long overdue, especially one with positive impact such as this one.

-Salmon/Trout in Lake Ontario are well dispersed throughout the water column and travel great distances throughout most of the year. Allowing an additional rod will help a lot of fishermen enjoy their fishing venture.

-Increasing the potential to catch fish has social; & economic benefit as it means more new and more returning fishermen that will launch their boats more; purchase more tackle, licenses, fishing staples, fuel; frequent more campsites & marinas; hire more guides, etc.

-The proposal is in keeping with New York State’s Fish Community Objectives which I quote from the NYSDEC website:

“FCO document describes NYSDEC and OMNR's commitment to develop fish community objectives that are based on the most current and complete scientific understanding of the ecosystem, and are responsive to the social, economic, and cultural needs of Lake Ontario stakeholders.â€

-It’s also in accord with the commissioner’s challenge (1st page of the fishing reg booklet): “…to help us rekindle an interest in New York’s great outdoors.â€

I urge you to check out the discussions, polls and petition and consider it for the upcoming DEC agendas

Thank you & Merry Christmas

Tom Bishop

Aka Tom B.

Aka LongLine

Tom B.

(LongLine)