Sandy Creek Cormorants

[Traveling Circus]

On Saturday it looked like a big flock of cormorants got blown off the lake and took up residence in the creek. In the frogwater section between East Fork Marine and the lake, I estimated 150 birds. I'd never seen that before in the past 30 years. They've been in the lower section since then. Yesterday evening, I launched and motored towards the lake, and there were probably 80 birds sitting on the spit to the East of the creek, along the East bay...... 

 

[Smat64]

Saw them yesterday too. They are eating something and devastating it.


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[Matt ching]

https://www.facebook.com/events/2374408705923559/


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[Matt ching]

They just released these fish on the 28th


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[whaler1]

Crazy that they can’t be hunted.


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[Bosun Cowboy]

Need a propane gun in the cove. We use them to keep Black birds out of sweet corn fields.


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[GAMBLER]

The only saving grace is the creek has a lot of Emeralds in it right now.  Hopefully the kings left the creek.  Another huge reason there needs to be an open season on them!!!!!

[fishmaster13184]

1 hour ago, GAMBLER said:

The only saving grace is the creek has a lot of Emeralds in it right now.  Hopefully the kings left the creek.  Another huge reason there needs to be an open season on them!!!!!

Would it be worth it to bring the fish to the lake to be released?

[The Great One]

There really is nothing you can do that isn’t illegal . I grew up on st Lawrence and they devastated all of the islands and really out a hurting on the fishing . How is it people can kill as many feral hogs as they want but this invasive species can not be controlled .


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[The Great One]

There really is nothing you can do that isn’t illegal . I grew up on st Lawrence and they devastated all of the islands and really out a hurting on the fishing . How is it people can kill as many feral hogs as they want but this invasive species can not be controlled .


In addition , the yacht club and those homes in that cove will be ruined ....


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[bluegiller]

Yes it's worth it to take them to the lake..I know it's not easy because I just di the steelhead pens but we did it at night and then by morning the lake had some chop so the fish got spread out..if you let then go in the stream they hang out and are a huge target. It took 2 boats per pen and about 4 hours to do it but I am sure we saved 1000's of fish



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[sandwick50]

Believe me, I have no love for these birds at all but to clarify, they are not an invasive species.  Native to North America, population significantly reduced in the 70’s due to pesticides that are now banned.  From what I’ve read it is now legal to shoot 50/day in Ontario.

[GAMBLER]

Getting the pens out in the lake would be tough. The pens might not make it out of the channel. Dumping the pens would be very hard and a safety concern from a boat. There is always the chance the kings would be drawn back tot he creek due to the warm water. Taking steelhead to the lake is an even bigger waste of time. When we have released them in the past, guys fishing the creek upstream of 19 have caught steelhead we have released.


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[bluegiller]

I can tell you we took the pens out, they were not easy to move but with 2 boats and taking your time it's not hard. Just slow. And if 50 % of them did not come back in the stream we saved a bunch...there were over 100 birds roasted in the trees just west of the ramp. And if we had let them go. In the stream and they did not scram fast as soon as it got light out in the am all we would have done is feed them. Also the night we did it the lake and stream were almost the same temp do to the cold weather ...and the lake had nice color from the winds the 2 days before...maybe some returned to the stream, but I bet alot of them spread out down the warm dirty water and saved them selves from the birds.. I am by no means an expert on fish but I have been fishing since I was born and spent tons of hours on the water, and have fished for just about every freash water fish in NY. Maybe what we did was a waste of time but there was only 2 boats and 6 people and we gave it our best effort, and did what we felt would increase the chances of as many fish as possible surviving.. also not many people would have used there boats to do this it's not easy on them the pens scratched our boats some but again my boat is made to be used and worth it if we saved a few fish so we all can enjoy them, wether it be lake fisherman or stream fisherman.

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[GAMBLER]

I can tell you we took the pens out, they were not easy to move but with 2 boats and taking your time it's not hard. Just slow. And if 50 % of them did not come back in the stream we saved a bunch...there were over 100 birds roasted in the trees just west of the ramp. And if we had let them go. In the stream and they did not scram fast as soon as it got light out in the am all we would have done is feed them. Also the night we did it the lake and stream were almost the same temp do to the cold weather ...and the lake had nice color from the winds the 2 days before...maybe some returned to the stream, but I bet alot of them spread out down the warm dirty water and saved them selves from the birds.. I am by no means an expert on fish but I have been fishing since I was born and spent tons of hours on the water, and have fished for just about every freash water fish in NY. Maybe what we did was a waste of time but there was only 2 boats and 6 people and we gave it our best effort, and did what we felt would increase the chances of as many fish as possible surviving.. also not many people would have used there boats to do this it's not easy on them the pens scratched our boats some but again my boat is made to be used and worth it if we saved a few fish so we all can enjoy them, wether it be lake fisherman or stream fisherman.

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What port bluegiller?


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[Gill-T]

I am seeing tons of cormorants everywhere I go.  Upper Niagara to ports on Lake Ontario......more than usual.  

[bluegiller]

What port bluegiller?


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Oak orchard.

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[GAMBLER]

Oak orchard.

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The Oak and Sandy are two different ports. The channel at Sandy is a lot shallower than the Oak. Our pens could possibly hit bottom and cause damage to the pens. If the pens were to rub bottom and the nets were to break off, all the fish in that one pen would be dead.


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[Traveling Circus]

There have been 6 or 7 cormorants in the ponds along 531 for about 3 weeks now............ the ba$tards are everywhere. 

[GAMBLER]

There have been 6 or 7 cormorants in the ponds along 531 for about 3 weeks now............ the ba$tards are everywhere. 

There were three in the ponds at Marketplace Mall last week and one in the pond in Long Pond Rd south of ESL and McDonalds the other day.


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[jimski2]

Rainbow trout are foreign invaders also. Over a century ago they were introduced with steam engines hauling in water tanks from the Pacific Coast.


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[Chas0218]

On 5/1/2019 at 10:04 AM, Traveling Circus said:

On Saturday it looked like a big flock of cormorants got blown off the lake and took up residence in the creek. In the frogwater section between East Fork Marine and the lake, I estimated 150 birds. I'd never seen that before in the past 30 years. They've been in the lower section since then. Yesterday evening, I launched and motored towards the lake, and there were probably 80 birds sitting on the spit to the East of the creek, along the East bay...... 

 

I have seen very large numbers the last couple years, I have a bad feeling that there numbers are starting to grow again. For a while the DEC was doing something about them but don't think they have done anything in the last few years. If that is true it is showing,

 

I wonder if they are any concern to DEC at this point or if they are going to wait until the fishing has gone to complete crap until they are.

 

My observations are from the NE end of the lake Chaumont/Henderson area. There have been flocks with 200+ birds at times just a black sky of birds.

 

Last season we had a flock that stuck around all summer out in front of our cottage probably 50 birds.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Chas0218

[Lucky13]

Pen raising of steelhead  was not an issue at Sandy (I am told by someone connected with the program out there) because Sandy steelhead were direct stocked because the pen they intended to use was recalled by Orleans County, where it then sat on the bank ot the creek out there not being used. 

[GAMBLER]

1 hour ago, Lucky13 said:

Pen raising of steelhead  was not an issue at Sandy (I am told by someone connected with the program out there) because Sandy steelhead were direct stocked because the pen they intended to use was recalled by Orleans County, where it then sat on the bank ot the creek out there not being used. 

That is correct Lucky.  We were planning on rearing steelhead but were left with no time to have a pen built. 

[Chas0218]

Here is an article on DEC's management techniques for Commorants.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/28442.html 

 

Here is the last section for the link:

Status of Management Actions

Current actions are a continuation of measures used in the past, with the exception that DFW may no longer implement actions directed at protection of important fisheries and must comply with strict limits at specified locations. While ongoing efforts help to reduce impacts at specific locations, management cannot be adaptable to changing conditions or when concerns arise in new locations. Limits on permissible take also reduce effectiveness where and when numbers exceed authorized control thresholds.

DEC applied for and received a permit in the spring of 2018 to take limited actions to protect rare birds and sensitive habitats at very specific sites in Lake Ontario, Lake Erie, Lake Champlain, Oneida Lake, and the St. Lawrence and Niagara Rivers. In total, DEC may remove up to 4,980 cormorant nests and 965 birds in efforts to reduce impacts at these sites. Currently, there is no provision to provide protection to fisheries important to anglers, although actions underway will provide some benefit.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS), the federal Agency with oversight of cormorants, is studying the issue in cooperation with the States, including New York. USFWS is now beginning a process to look at fisheries impacts caused by cormorants. DEC will participate in the effort to ensure that effective management strategies to protect all natural resources are considered in future plans developed by the USFWS.

We hope that this process will result in a more comprehensive cormorant management plan that encompasses the range of public resource concerns that exist, but the process may not be completed for several years.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Chas0218