fishfinder vs. speed and temp probe

[Legacy]

lets say you have a "in dash" depthfinder on your boat

(so depth and safety arent a question)

and you had to choose between bringing your fishfinder, and bringing your speed and temp probe for a day of fishing............

[ray koziatek]

can always get speed close with cables and action at surface i also have a calabrated spitomiter on board.temp is nice but if i mark fish at 50 ft thats where my spoons are regardless of temp,also fish outa temp are there for a reason......... like to eat ...........

[Erbyjoe]

Ok I screwed this whole post up I'm bowing out It's been a LONG LONG day :?

[Yankee Troller]

I have fished the last two years without a speed and temp probe. But I seem to ctch fish by finding them with the FF. As far as speed goes check your cables and wire dipseys! Wouldnt leave home without a FF!!!!!!!! S&T can wait.

[Billy V]

Tough one. I had my FF go down last summer for a few days and I felt blind, but I worked the S&T and we put fish in the box. But when I lost my probe on my S&T, I felt blind AND crippled! I know you gotta have the FF, but in my mind there is no substitute for knowing EXACTLY what speed and temp you have at the ball. Watching cables only gives you an approximation of speed, not to mention no indication of temp. I've had days when my cables are blown way back and yet my probe only showed 2.0mph down speed. Had I just been watching my cables, I would've slowed down, when what I needed to do (and did sucessfully) was to speed up!

I think my answer is that you need to have both. That being said, I bought the FF first, and then added the S&T. And I'd still do it in that order.

[chinook]

Yankee, have to agree with you. I fished for years without a speed and temp and caught alot of fish. Granted they are nice to have, and will add to the catch .Having said that, there are times when you should fish the marks, as well as locating bait, which is a key ingredient. One can tell relative speed by watching the cables as Yankee stated, also watching rod tips with say a thumper rod. Another consideration would be you are fishing blind for not knowing the water depth. Lastly, many locators can pick up the thermocline once it sets up giving an idea where preferred temps are located. No brainer for me, go with the fishfinder in my opinon.

[waterlogged]

What good is knowing your speed and temp if you don't know if there is any bait or marks?? Our xducer crapped out last year late in the salmon season and we had speed and temp at the ball but a blank screen on the ff. How discouraging was that..... not knowing if you had any bait or fish. Besides you can always go by GPS SOG which is what most of the radio chatter refers to when referencing speed. The necessity for S&T is when you have drastic currents below the surface.

My duthers are have the FF to see marks and bait as some others ssaid even marks out of temperature are there for a reason.

Just my $.02

Clarke

[W.W.IV.]

I don't have riggers, just run dipsies so I don't need down speed but I like to know where the temp. is. I use a old MacJac hand held temp.gage, good to 100fow. The FF is good for depth but didn't count on it to catch fish.They can be there and and not show on the FF.I play it by ear,if the reels are screeming I've got it right. Got back into it last year and hooked up 4-5 times most trips. Not bed just having to baits out.

[Billy V]

What good is knowing where the fish and bait are if you have no idea what speed your lure is turning down there? If your surface speed is a solid 2.50mph, but your lure is spinning at 3.75mph due to a current, are you gonna catch many fish? I suspect not. Conversely, what if you're watching your cables and they tell you that you have your speed perfect, but unbeknownst to you there's a micro-current running with you at the same depth your lures are placed? Everything looks great, sounds great, but if you put a probe down you might find your lure running 1.0mph. Will that catch fish? I doubt it. There are oftentimes massive amounts of current below the surface that you'd never know was there if you didn't have your probe down.

I used to watch my cables and my GPS and swore I had my speed right. Then I bought a probe and found out just how many times I was wrong.

Like I said in my first post, I think you need both. In order to maximize your catch, you need to know where the fish & bait are (And if they're actively feeding or not), what your speed at the lure is, and what the down temp is. When you give up one or more of those pieces of information, you're giving up some of your fishing "senses". If you choose to fish without either a FF or a S&T, you're hurting your chances to maximize your catch.

[GAMBLER]

I would have to say the Fish finder. My luck one of the knuckleheads driving my boat would lead me into shallow water (when I was rigging) and I would hang the ball in the bottom and lose my probe. Sometimes you can tell the fishes mood by the way the fish act when the ball goes by them. With a good fishfinder you can see the fish dive away from the riggers or follow the ball. As you ALL know, those kings will show up in any water temp to feed (especially in late August and September). A good example of fish shying away from the ball was last spring fishing off of I-bay in 140 FOW. I had fish at 40' down and they kept shying away from the ball. I tired longer leads off of the riggers and the SWR rig and nothing would hit. I pulled the riggers and wire dipsys and ran 4 slide divers and boards with drop weights. We ended up with 4 steelies and 1 king in 1 1/2 hours.

[FISHBANDIT]

I dont have a down temp or speed. I always look for bait pod first then mark on gps then criss cross the pod till i find the direction that produces. If my riggers humm a certain tune and have the right angle I know im at a good speed and if I see fish going after my stuff I slow down or speed up to get the strike. Not to say I havent gotten fish on a blank screen. I still wouldnt mind getting down speed/ temp one day. With a good fish finder you can see the thermalcline anyway.

[chinook]

BIll, I think that most would agree that in order to maximize your catch that both fishfinder and speed and temp would be needed. No one has said otherwise. Having said that, the question was which could you not be without, meaning either/ or. Again, if I were limited to one, it would be the fishfinder for reasons already given. I fished without it for years and learned to read the cable angle, bubbles, cable direction, dipsey tip action and other variables. As waterlogged mentioned, G.P.S. S.OG. is a means to monitor ones speed. Granted, it is not at the ball, but one of the best unnamed, highly reputable charters out of the Oak will tell you that he focuses in on his G.P.S. and favors 2.5 S.O.G. on many occasions and doesn't use his downspeed each day. So yes, no doubt one is somewhat limited if not using a down speed/temp. I'll take my chances if limited to one, with the fishfinder. Fish the marks. No takers, change the angle of approach, speed up, slow down, change lead lengths, I think you get the picture until something fires. At least I know I'm on bait, and fish. The 3 ingredients needed to put fish in the boat usually are, bait, fish and temp in that order. With the downspeed I only have one. With the finder I have 2 out of 3. And as Meatloaf once said, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

[Mick]

You guys are all right in your views. As I stated in a post probably lost long ago a spoon's action at 2 feet underwater on a checker rod can have a very different action 20 - 100 feet underwater with the lakes currents and troll direction. I think time on the water and experience helps more than anything. I would rather have the ff since that's all I got now. A speed and temp does help at the time your fishing since you can find changes in the water as they happen. That said if the lake is in a pattern for a few days checking info on fishing conditions can help out lots also.I wish I had both but that will be someday . - Mick

[Billy V]

Chinook,

I completely understand the original question. And if you go back and look at my first post, you'll see that I said I put a FF on my boat first, and a probe second, and that I'd still do it in that order...for all the reasons you've specified.

My point was simply that in my world, I won't leave the dock without either.

[jimski2]

My priority is a depthfinder so I don't hang up on he bottom. When I see fish on the sonar, I don't really know what they are and if they're feeding. My best fishfinder is my rods when they have fish on them. Gravity and the angle on my cannonballs tell me the action I have down there. If the balls are too far back, I'm going too fast. If they aren't angled enough, I'm too slow. If there are no fish on, change lures, then if it continues, be happy I'm not looking at this stupid computer screen.

[LongLine]

In early spring definitely FF, as temp is pretty uniform. Thermal barrier can easily be found by sight. In summer definitely temp. I've caught more fish on a clean screen than out of temp during summer. Temp can eliminate water for higher percentage fish rather quickly in summer. In Fall, lord knows where the fish are gonna be at any particular moment but usually around the rivers.

Speed is important all yr long, but you can fairly accurately "guess" at that with cable angle, thumpers, dipseys etc. Currents can be detected by turning the boat occassionally & being observant.

Situation question: Early/mid July, you're FF shows lots of decent marks all over from 20 ft to bottom over 40FOW off Roch'. Do you spend all day trying to catch them or do you go deeper? FF won't tell you what they are. Temp will give you very good hints. i.e 70 deg might indicate they're carp, drums, etc. Cold water (from upwelling) might indicate targets.

Tom B.

(LongLine)

(yeah I know...you'll be off Niagara anyway......)

[Legacy]

i couldnt even come up with an answer to my own post. i guess if you broke it down to time of year then it might be easier to make a choice.(spring= ff, summer=s+t, fall=ff)

it would probably work out to be 50/50

im thinking every time we are out there we rely more on one than the other.

(some days we fish bait balls, some days we fish temp, etc)

but i dont think i could ever leave the dock again without both

i just love to see the debates