Chirp vs Traditional sonar

[jigstick]

I’ve been thinking about getting rid of my chirp transducer and going back to traditional sonar.   The cone angles of even wide angle chirp transducers are roughly 1/2 the coverage area of a traditional transducer. 

 

I’m starting to feel that chirp isn’t necessary for trolling on the Great Lakes. The increased resolution and target separation is nice if you are looking for structure or jig fishing for crappy, perch, etc but the narrow cone angle isn’t helping much when covering large areas of water with a wide trolling spread. 

 

Im thinking of going back to a 50/200 or 77/200khz traditional transducer with a 45* cone angle. That will cover a much much larger area around the boat when trolling. 

 

What do do you guys prefer?

Edited June 16, 2019 by jigstick

[Earl28]

The CHIRP sonar generates an image using a wider range of frequencies, which allows the processor to produce a much more accurate and detailed sonar image of fish, structure, or the bottom. "For freshwater use, 200 kHz is the most commonly used frequency with traditional 2D sonar.

Check out utube for side by side comparisons.

[jigstick]

I understand the difference between the two. My question for the group is what do you guys prefer / use when trolling the Great Lakes?

[Netbender]

Jig, I have only used my Si_Di on two trips now down here trolling in the Fingers. I am coming from a 50/200 Furuno. I am with you on some of your thinking. I may keep both as the transducers are both mounted on the boat currently. Unclear of what is best as of yet, but hear your side.

[Gator]

50/200 all the way. CHIRP is for bottom fishermen lol (love it on my Lund though).

[bandrus1]

Just give me how many fow I'm in and my fish hawk and I'm happy

[bandrus1]

Just give me how many fow I'm in and my fish hawk and I'm happy

[Yankee Troller]

CHIRP would be nice if they offered the same cone angles as traditional. CHIRP basically gives you a "prettier picture." I don't recommend it to anyone who is trolling.

[jigstick]

That’s what I’m getting at. Chirp cone angles are 25-26* max with low and mid frequency ranges. 50ft down that’s only covering an 18ft diameter area.   My trolling spread including the copper rods off the planers is well past 150ft wide behind the boat. 

 

Traditional sonar at 50 or 77hz can have a cone angle of 45 degrees. More than double that of a chirp transducer. As trollers I am starting to believe that covering more water with sonar is the better route

 

unfortunately Airmar doesn’t make a dual channel transducer offering mid band chirp and 50/77khz on the other side. The only combo transducers pair the chirp side with either DI or SS sonar. 

[Netbender]

Might be helpful.....from Humminbird. Just a visual of DI.

Hum - transducer info.pdf

Edited June 17, 2019 by superhawk18

[jigstick]

I think I’m going to switch to a mid band chirp transducer. 80-160khz at 600 watts. That’s 2x the power output of my current transducer. And a much better frequency range. Plus I can run it on traditional sonar at 80khz or 160khz if I don’t want chirp. Should be a big upgrade. 

[Netbender]

That sounds like a good choice. Let us know which one you end up with and how it works once installed.

[Chas0218]

On 6/17/2019 at 3:28 PM, jigstick said:

That’s what I’m getting at. Chirp cone angles are 25-26* max with low and mid frequency ranges. 50ft down that’s only covering an 18ft diameter area.   My trolling spread including the copper rods off the planers is well past 150ft wide behind the boat. 

 

Traditional sonar at 50 or 77hz can have a cone angle of 45 degrees. More than double that of a chirp transducer. As trollers I am starting to believe that covering more water with sonar is the better route

 

unfortunately Airmar doesn’t make a dual channel transducer offering mid band chirp and 50/77khz on the other side. The only combo transducers pair the chirp side with either DI or SS sonar. 

Not sure what unit you have but you might be able to add a traditional sonar module for less than a new FF. I am thinking of doing it for my boat. I like a larger viewing angle when looking for perch or bass.

[Chas0218]

16 hours ago, jigstick said:

I think I’m going to switch to a mid band chirp transducer. 80-160khz at 600 watts. That’s 2x the power output of my current transducer. And a much better frequency range. Plus I can run it on traditional sonar at 80khz or 160khz if I don’t want chirp. Should be a big upgrade. 

Pretty sure that is the CHIRP freq I am running on my Raymarine. It is a 25*/60* CHIRP/CHIRP FF Sonar. I can switch between downvision and traditional sonar.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Chas0218

[Chas0218]

Here are some pictures of the traditional sonar using my downvision transducer while trolling for walleye.This is suing the 60* cone angle with traditional sonar setting.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Chas0218

[justtracytrolling]

For walleye, perch, bass, and anything else in less than 100fow imaging is the play imo.  I can see individual fish on bait 200' left and right of the boat.  Can't get your spread that wide....or your sonar.  

[Jager]

I think I’m going to switch to a mid band chirp transducer. 80-160khz at 600 watts. That’s 2x the power output of my current transducer. And a much better frequency range. Plus I can run it on traditional sonar at 80khz or 160khz if I don’t want chirp. Should be a big upgrade. 

Jigstick, I run a GARMIN 942xs with a mid level CHIRP transducer 80-135 kHz. Started out using it in CHIRP mode only but as of late, use it mostly in the fixed 80kHz frequency only and it performs better when trolling. In addition, it picks up my Rigger weights at all depths. They aren’t nearly as solid and I lose them beyond 80’ down in CHIRP mode. Considering adding a 50/200 transducer since I’m only trolling Lake O.


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[garrymny]

Very good topic. I was just thinking about this yesterday as I was searching for bait as a place to start. I agree, chirp is not needed, and a wide cone angle will be an advantage. I need to research and see what I can do for my HDS 7.

Sent from my moto z3 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[Sk8man]

Basically "using the right tool for the job". For jigging and still fishing CHIRP can help define things better, standard 50/200 or 83/200 transducers excel in trolling but the match to the unit is critical as is fine tuning things for the particular unit. Not all standard transducers are of the same quality either. The Airmars have a long history of solid performance.

[Mike M]

 

 

 

 

I have a Airmar TM-150 medium chirp ducer with my HDS-Carbon unit. We fish Erie and L.Ontario. Very happy with performance.  Previous had a 200 khz skimmer ducer. Was  good inside 100 fow. Marked very little when we went off shore on L Ontario.

 

 

 

z

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i've

[jigstick]

the problem is most box stores near the great lakes are selling these MFD's bundled with transducers more geared towards the bass / jig fishermen.  Ive found very few bundles which include a transducer better suited to open water trolling....ie large cone angles and frequency ranges appropriate for 30-600fow.  Its a real shame.  Because there's a lot of people who buy these bundles and have to eat the costs of the included transducer and still have to buy a transducer better suited for what we do.

 

The saltwater guys don't have to deal with this because most of them are buying high dollar displays and piecing the system together a la carte.

 

My advice for guys looking for new electronics is to buy units with at least 500watts output to the transducer.  More power even better.  And pair it with a transducer which can handle the output your MFD puts out.  Chose a frequency range suited for the depths you typically fish.  50/200, 77/200, 83/200....or a chirp transducer that covers these ranges.  SOME, not all, mid band chirp transducers do a very good job covering these ranges while also allowing you to run it in traditional mode ie one frequency....if you're MFD supports that ability

Edited July 22, 2019 by jigstick

[dry net]

MFD ?

[djw13cwru]

18 hours ago, dry net said:

MFD ?

 

Multi Function Display - I think Raymarine uses this most.

[Jager]

I think I’m going to switch to a mid band chirp transducer. 80-160khz at 600 watts. That’s 2x the power output of my current transducer. And a much better frequency range. Plus I can run it on traditional sonar at 80khz or 160khz if I don’t want chirp. Should be a big upgrade. 

Jig, this is what I use on my GARMIN. It’s paired with a Medium CHIRP 80-135kHz transducer. For trolling I set it to straight 80kHz and it does a fantastic job. Took me a while to understand all of the features of this transducer but got it figured out. As Yankee states, CHIRP is good for the nice images but traditional frequencies work much better for trolling!


Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[Followed The Waves]

Hello from a long time ago!  This is a very timely topic for me.  I sold my Bayliner in 2011 and now eight years later, I couldn’t stay away any longer.  I bought an old Carver last week which will serve me well for living aboard for the weekend and jigging off the back.  It came with an antiquated Humminbird Wide View FF up in the flybridge but nothing on the stern.  I have two FF’s on hand and I will probably install both of them.  I stuck with Humminbird because my old 565 served me so well and I was familiar with the menu settings.  I have a Helix 5 Chirp DI GPS which I had installed on my fishing kayak.  I actually made it up to Seneca twice this spring and I could see my jig falling for the most part although I did have to “hit it just right” to get it within the cone.  I may replace the antiquated FF up in the flybridge with this one.  I also just bought a Hummingbird Helix 5 G2 for $180 (paid $300 after rebate for the Chirp model!).  I think for fishing off the stern, the Sonar G2 will probably win out.  Because the boat is so huge, Barrett Marine will have to lift it for an hour or so, so I can drill a couple holes, install the transducer, and seal things up with marine grade silicone.

Does this sound like a plan for a jigger only?  Thanks for any feedback and I apologize if I’m hijacking this thread but it’s all in the game.  I’ve been out of the game for eight years but hope to be back in by this weekend and I will contribute again as I did in the past.  I see a few names I knew from years ago and some of the peeps knew me as a regular contributor on the Sanders boards.  Good luck, Jigstick and thanks for any input on my plan of attack.

 

Joe