Down Riggers In General

[raider44]

This past summer was my first visit to Point Breeze and Lake Ontario. We caught some big fish, but not a lot of fish. The biggest problem was that we only caught 2 fish all week off the riggers. Some main colors we used were; 42 second, steelie dan, tranny, purple thunder, kervokian. etc. The other 14 we caught were all off dipsy's and spin docs.

We tried everything to get our riggers going-- and its not like this is the first time we have used riggers, we have used them very much on Lake Erie. We have two down riggers, and we stacked another pole off each rigger, so a total of 4 poles on the two riggers. The one rigger was equp'd. with a tempature/speed probe. generally we would have our strike zone over a twenty foot span with four poles, so spoons were staggered every 5 feet. I.E.; 65, 60, 55, & 50 there would be a spoon in the water.

We did not use flashers or dodgers. Usually on the set up closest to the ball we let out 7-15 feet back, and the stacker we had 5-8 feet back. We tried sliders, but had no luck.

Does anyone have any advice... advice for different set-ups, techniques to change the set-up i exclaimed... anything at all i will take, because catching 2 fish off the riggers for one week is bad...

Does anyone know how to set up a mupped rigg? I have heard a mupped rigg is a great set-up.

[MANIAC]

Raider, From At the Oak, Random Tips Page http://www.attheoak.com/tips.html

Mup Rig...It's simple and sometimes deadly. On one or two deep rigs, usually just the bottom rigger. Use this set-up...thread a black Add-a-line release on to your mono which comes off your fishing rod before you tie on your swiveled spoon. Then hook up and position your target spoon 10' to 12' back behind the ball. Then lower the ball just below the surface of the water keeping the Add-a-line release device in your left hand with the mono sliding thru it. Stop the ball when it is 5' below the Add-a-line. Snap on your 6' leader (a swiveled larger attractor spoon) and jerk the leader to lock it into place. Then lower to desired depth (46° for kings). The current hot set-up, now and last season, is a lazer ladder backed Mini Streak target spoon trailing a Pirate 55 lazer spook just above and ahead of it. This set-up is wide open for spoon experimation, as long as the trailing target spoon is ALWAYS below, 5' or 6' behind and smaller

Many guys use a rubber band to "pin" the higher attractor spoon. I made a setup that uses an offshore planer release to pin mine. Hope this helps, Eric

[raider44]

Thanks Maniac... I am heading back this upcoming summer around the end of July. I'm looking for anything that could help my downrigger misery from this past year. We did take a 28lb king that we just got back yesterday from the taxidermist, he did a great job!

any other info is much appreciated... thanks

[momay4000]

Raider44,

Last year, our riggers were our hottest set-up by far. Here's some advice:

1.) Sometimes "less is more", i.e. eliminate your tightly stacked presentation and simply run one spoon off each rigger. That being said, in July mupping our riggers was stellar.

2.) You may be running your spoons a little tight to the ball. Try presenting your spoon a little further behind the ball, i.e. use the "100 rule" .... the total feet down + lead behind the ball should = 100. Certainly this is just a rule of thumb, but if you're only running some of your riggers down 50 feet, having the lure only 10-15 feet behind the ball might be a little tight.

3.) Try running one of your riggers with a flasher (maybe 15-20 feet off the ball), and the other a clean spoon further back. Often times the flasher acts like an attractor and the fish will hit the spoon further back.

4.) It seems like you might have been fishing a little shallow with your riggers for July. Typically that time of year, the thermocline is deeper and we were fishing 80-140 feet down with our riggers. Once we find 42 degree water, we park one rigger there and work up.

Good luck

- Chris

[Jack]

Maniac, when your running the Mup-Rig what #test are you using on your main line and what line are you using for leader ?

Thanks JT

[MANIAC]

Jack, 20lb main line and 20 lb flouro leader.

[Legacy]

dont think that your doing something wrong on days when the riggers dont fire, some days they might be hot and others completely dead. i think chris' 100 rule is a good place to start. i dont stacked downriggers too often anymore but with that in mind i do like to run mupped rigs and cheaters. heres an example of a setup:

downrigger rod w/ 20# mainline w/ a smaller spoon 15-25' behind ball. i lower the ball 8-15' and connect my cheater. for my cheater line i use a 6-8' leader of 30# big game w/ a roemer liberator release w/ a larger spoon. dont feel that you have to use a larger spoon above a smaller one. ive found that spoons of the same size work great too. basically you want spoons that are either the same pattern or very similar and always the same manufacturer. i typically run this rig at the very top or the bottom of the active strike range. i dont run this rig extremely deep (over 100') or extremely shallow (under 35'). when the rig is really working i might even put the same spoon on another downrigger. heres another example: lets say on my mupped rig i have my bottom spoon down 60' and 20' off the ball w/ a small spoon. 10' above that (which is 50' down for those without a calculator handy) i have my cheater w/ a larger spoon. then ill take a downrigger (on the same side of the boat) and drop it down w/ a small spoon 40-45' down and 35' back.

[raider44]

momay- thank you for the 100 rule of thumb... I remember experimenting with the length behind the ball and do not honestly remember going further back than 20 feet. No doubt this year we will be posting our spoons much further back of the ball.

I think another problem could have been we were looking for 49-52 degrees of water to fish.. Good chance our riggers could have been to high. We'll try lower this year as well.

Legacy- I followed everything you said except for the "cheater spoon". Is the cheater spoon just a word for the spoon off of a mup rig?

Thanks again guys, you've been more than helpful

-Troy

[Richard]

raider44

If you prefer to fish that 60 to 65 foot depth, the Oak (point breeze) has a great summer fishery out at the 500 to 600 foot depth. The prefered temp is higher out there and that depth is not really that far out depending on your rig.

I would add a flasher/flie set up mixed in your rigger set up to draw the fish in. Like said above though, if you are in closer to shore you might need to drop deeper to get to the prefered water temp for the kings. That is a great summer port. I hope to get back there someday. Also for info particular to that port you should see the fishing reports on their site www.attheoak.com

Good luck, I hope you have a great trip next year.

Richard

[Legacy]

raider44,

the cheater spoon is your upper spoon on muppped rig

[raider44]

I understand how a mup rig works now. A question I have is, is it possible to run a mup rig off a stacker?

Being from North Central Ohio and mainly fishing for walleye in Lake Erie in 22-35 feet of water(that is constantly changing) the downriggers do not often make the trip, and we only have 2 downriggers. I know a good amount of Ontario fishermen have 3-5 riggers on board.

We ran stackers the entire time at Point Breeze this past year, and my father in law had run them in past years with much success. I know (or at least think) that it would be impossible to run a Mup rig at the ball, then run a stacker on the same rigger. So is it possible to run Mup rig off the stacker, to get more spoons in the water?

Thanks again guys...

[GAMBLER]

Yes you can. I do this once and a while. Rig the bottom rod, then the top rod and add the cheater. Its simple. This takes a lot of out of temp fish for me.

[momay4000]

Gambler,

How do you run both a mupped rig and a fixed cheater at the same time? Essentially you would be running two "fixed" cheaters and consequently if the fish hits the top cheater and slides down, wouldn't it come into contact with the fixed mupped spoon and potentially break the line?

Thanks for clarifying,

- Chris

[GAMBLER]

I'm talking about running 2 rods off of one rigger with the top rod cheated.

[momay4000]

Thanks for clarifying, that makes more sense.

- Chris

[raider44]

Does anyone have any specific spoon color combinations that work well on the mup rig? I read the combination on the oak website, and it states that it is wide open for experimentation. Does it make a difference regardless bright colors darker colors for cheater or targets?

[FX]

As Legacy stated - make sure to use same lure manufacturer per rig so lure action is consistent. NBK's, 42 second, tranny, and pro-king purple (not sure of exact name) spoons were the best mupped and cheated producers for me this year.

Shawn

[Legacy]

ive had success with alot of different combos. i like to fish kevorkians mupped ,high in the water column (top 40') . i also love to fish stinger nbks on a deeper rigger, lets say 50-80' mupped. both were great producers last year.

[raider44]

I think possibly another problem was we did not experiment with different sizes of spoons. We either ran super slims or Michigan stingers, which are pretty much the exact same size.

Thanks for the tips guys!

[chowder]

Raider, From At the Oak, Random Tips Page http://www.attheoak.com/tips.html

Mup Rig...It's simple and sometimes deadly. On one or two deep rigs, usually just the bottom rigger. Use this set-up...thread a black Add-a-line release on to your mono which comes off your fishing rod before you tie on your swiveled spoon. Then hook up and position your target spoon 10' to 12' back behind the ball. Then lower the ball just below the surface of the water keeping the Add-a-line release device in your left hand with the mono sliding thru it. Stop the ball when it is 5' below the Add-a-line. Snap on your 6' leader (a swiveled larger attractor spoon) and jerk the leader to lock it into place. Then lower to desired depth (46° for kings). The current hot set-up, now and last season, is a lazer ladder backed Mini Streak target spoon trailing a Pirate 55 lazer spook just above and ahead of it. This set-up is wide open for spoon experimation, as long as the trailing target spoon is ALWAYS below, 5' or 6' behind and smaller

Many guys use a rubber band to "pin" the higher attractor spoon. I made a setup that uses an offshore planer release to pin mine. Hope this helps, Eric

I am confused about this setup; is your offshore planer release what you are calling a "Add- a- line release", if so then what is the clinch pad attached to and where is the "6' leader " with the larger spoon coming from - a 2cd rod, or is it a slider on the main line?

[Legacy]

chowder,

the second line is a fixed cheater. "add-a-line" is a brand name of a release. some guys use rubber bands to pin their cheater and i use roemer liberators. hers a great picture of the setup: http://www.roemerrelease.com/Roemer%20L ... iption.htm

[chowder]

Rob, I think I got it;

1. Put the liberator or add a line on the main line before you tie on the swivel that goes to the leader & terminal snap (maybe this liberator can be added after, I can't tell from looking at the picture)

2.let out 10-12' of line with the small spoon on the end of it and put the line in the release.

3. hold onto the liberator or add a line at the water level and drop the ball 5' down

4. secure the liberator to the main line ( does a add a line get pinched to the dr cable? it looks like the leader from the liberator to the larger spoon can be snapped to the liberator at this time and you drop this cheater line in.

5. drop the ball to desired depth or temp range.

The liberator has the advantage of not involving the dr cable which the add a line needs to clip to to fix the depth of the large spoon- Do I have it or am I still missing something?

[Tim Bromund]

well no, the add a line runs free sliding on the rigger rod line. it doesn't get clipped to the rigger. Water pressure holds it in place once it's in the water. Here's what they look like and the directions on the back of the package:

Tim

[Legacy]

im not a fan of the "add a line" but you can use toothpicks to pin the "add a line" to make it a fixed slider. i would suggest using either the roemer liberators or the rubber band method. with either you actually deploy the rigger then attach the cheater.

liberator method- attach main line to downrigger release and deploy 5-15' (or whatever your separation distance is). take your completely rigged cheater line ( 6-8' leader w/ swivels on both ends w/ your spoon and liberator attached) slide line into liberator, close line clamp and keeper ring. throw spoon overboard and make sure line is running true. lower rigger to desired depth.

rubber band method-attach main line to downrigger release and deploy 5-15' (or whatever your separation distance is). take your completely rigged cheater line ( 6-8' leader w/ swivels on both ends w/ your spoon). half hitch a rubberband to your mainline then attach your swivel to the mainline and to the loop in the rubberband. throw spoon overboard and make sure line is running true. lower rigger to desired depth.

[Tim Bromund]

Rob,

I've never found it necessary to pin the add a line to make it fixed. The water pressure from the slider pulling on the line between the "ears" holds it in place. Much easier to use than rubber bands IMO. Never used the liberator so I can't comment on those.

Tim