Fish Consumption advisories

[Mortigan]

This topic pops up every once in a while since the DEC posts advisories on what and how much to eat out of New York waters. 

This is a pretty good take on the issue: https://www.themeateater.com/cook/butchering-and-processing/eat-fish-die-happy-clarifying-consumption-advisories

[rdebadts]

Yeah. And always remember that our advisories are conservative and based on consumption of the whole fish. And despite that, salmon consumption was recently quadrupled, from 1 meal a month to 4.


The Fishin’ Physician Assistant

[Lucky13]

The biggest thing to remember is that the risks to women of child bearing age, and children and teeners, are much greater than for adult men and post menopausal women, and the high risk group should still consume NO fish of ANY species from ANY water body where there is ANY advisory for the lower risk group.  The advisories, which are issued by NYSDOH, not DEC, are based on risks of cancer, mutation, and birth defects found in laboratory animals, but do not include the much more insidious  possible effects of disruption of the endocrine system of developing organisms, i.e. children, and there are a lot of studies indicating this, although the best quantification of the risk has been "Eat  None." 

[jimski2]

The worship of large fish with money contests and media reports contributed to consumption of unhealthy amounts of chemicals. Harvesting smaller fish like perch should be promoted for consumption rather than the taking larger specimens that should be released.


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[wishinfishin]

I'm not 100% on this but I thought when fish are tested, they grind up the whole fish because some people make soup ,using the whole fish,that way there's an accurate count on various toxins.

Filleting a fish , removing the skin, and lateral line area ,and belly reduces consumption of toxins which build up more in these areas of fish.

The longer a fish lives the more toxins are absorbed.

Salmon grow rapidly compare to say a bass or walleye .

I think I saw a chart in the back of the fishing regs that showed how long it takes a fish to become certain size and weight.

That would be a good gauge to see what size fish you would want to eat of that species comparing how long it lived absorbing toxins.

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[rdebadts]

Lucky-

Those are the guidelines, but they are largely not based on science, rather caution. When looking at each individual industrial toxins from whole filets, many of the levels fall below the thresholds felt to be safe for even children and pregnancy women. This becomes even more true when eliminating very large lake trout and other very old predators. I’ve looked at each fish individually in the studies. it would be akin to saying to never eat any ocean fish because some are very polluted. It is a cya statement, a catch all, I believe.

 

 

The Fishin’ Physician Assistant

 

 

[garrymny]

With the Japanese nuclear disaster that still leaks into the ocean, I doubt any fish are safe to eat from the ocean either.

 

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[Flanman]

I've actually done a decent amount of looking into this over the years. Grocery stores and fish mongers are legally allowed to sell you fish with higher levels of contamination than what we are catching in Lake Ontario for the most part. I am not going to say that is true of a 30 year old lake trout. I will say it of salmon, browns, and rainbows. I would not hesitate to eat a 5-8 lb lake trout and have many times. They are very good if prepared properly, especially smoked. New York State wants zero exposure to legal drama over someone blaming them that they got cancer from eating fish that the state put in the lake. I don't necessarily blame them on that. SUNY Brockport did a study years ago and the highest levels of contamination that they could find was around .08 ppm and I believe that was the whole fish, which of course we don't eat the whole fish. Last time I checked, the store is allowed to sell fish with contamination levels as high as 2 ppm. A long time fisheries biologist told me once that NYS doesn't want to trigger a commercial fishery out there - i don't know if that is true. 

 

Bottom line is that there are a lot of fish being sold in store and by mongers that have higher levels of contamination that what we are catching. I don't even want to get into the mass produced chicken, beef, and pork that millions of people are mindlessly eating every day. That's not to mention the farm raised sea food coming from South Asia. Most people don't think of that but they say hey, should I be eating the fish out of the great lakes? How about the McBurger or the Tilapia you're eating? Now that's nasty. 

Eat away my friends - we have some awesome fisheries around here and some really nice fish to grill, fry, bake, and smoke. 

FLANMAN

[Frogger]

Years ago there was some third party testing reported in Sports Afield that did the entire fish, filleted fish w/ no skin, vegetables / lettuce from grocery store. Those results indicated that the food from the store has higher concentrations of toxins than the fillets. I think the suggestions as mentioned are spot on, younger fish, fillet them, no skin you’ll live to fish another day. I personally will take the McNugget over the salmon but perch never lol


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[Lucky13]

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 2:07 PM, jimski2 said:

The worship of large fish with money contests and media reports contributed to consumption of unhealthy amounts of chemicals. Harvesting smaller fish like perch should be promoted for consumption rather than the taking larger specimens that should be released.


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This is just so wrong.  Salmon and trout are oily fish, high  in Omega 3 fatty acids.  They are an exceptional food fish.  They are also mainly supported as a managed fishery, through stocking, so harvest is in no way a threat to the population if kept to the legal limits.  If there were no issues with bioaccumulation of legacy contaminants, I'd be packing a freezer to whatever extent I could.  This is not to deny that perch are wholesome protein and delicious, but they do not have the high levels of Omega 3's.  They also contain similar concentrations of the same contaminants as trout and salmon at the same age, not size, so they pose the same health risks as Trout and salmon from the contaminated waterbody and should not be eaten by children and women of child bearing age.  In the Adirondaks, perch over 12" are listed as contaminated with mercury in virtually all waterbodies, but the trout don't accumulate the mercury at the same rate as the perch, and are still somewhat safe (although the warning is the same, if ANY fish is listed for a waterbody,  children and women of child bearing age should eat NONE from that waterbody.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Lucky13

[rdebadts]

Lucky, I just can’t subscribe to the notion that all children should avoid all fish from all ny waters. That is essentially the blanket recommendation, with very very few exceptions. The problem is it just isn’t borne out for most species in most waters, if viewed individually... at least based on the scientific literature I’ve reviewed. Just because a 40 lb bottom feeding carp may have borderline levels doesn’t mean that every other single fish in that entire body of water is unsuitable to eat. That’s asinine, but that IS the extraordinarily conservative approach of my state. In fact, most of these fish are similar in bioaccumulation to frequently consumed ocean fish.


The Fishin’ Physician Assistant

[jimski2]

Again it is the worship of large fish that is the problem. Stay out of the large fish contests. Dump the slobs, keep the “good eaters”. Let common sense decide your catch, not the big fish promoted by the media and contests.


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[Lucky13]

18 hours ago, rdebadts said:

Lucky, I just can’t subscribe to the notion that all children should avoid all fish from all ny waters. That is essentially the blanket recommendation, with very very few exceptions. The problem is it just isn’t borne out for most species in most waters, if viewed individually... at least based on the scientific literature I’ve reviewed. Just because a 40 lb bottom feeding carp may have borderline levels doesn’t mean that every other single fish in that entire body of water is unsuitable to eat. That’s asinine, but that IS the extraordinarily conservative approach of my state. In fact, most of these fish are similar in bioaccumulation to frequently consumed ocean fish.


The Fishin’ Physician Assistant

A lot of people still smoke cigarettes, too.  I have not seen data for ocean fish (and for Lake Ontario, I think we all have yet to see the most recent data DEC has gathered under a GLRI grant, and NYSDOH participated in a three state study that I have yet to see published, making me wonder if they didn't get " the right answer") but my understanding is that fish that stay littoral especially off population centers, are just as contaminated, but offshore and faster growing fish are way below lake fish in contaminants.  I know what you mean about most waterbodies being " off limits" for children, basically the entire Adirondack region makes the list now, but mercury is well documented in its negative effects.

And there are lots of studies about negative impacts of endocrine disrupting chemicals on developing organisms including humans.

[jimski2]

I fished Lake Erie with gill nets for fourteen seasons. The Canadians use harvest size specific meshes that target safe size perch and walleyes. Their perch harvested are eight to ten inches in length to avoid contamination accumulation in their flesh and sixteen to eighteen inch length for health care reasons. Hook and line sport fishing focus on the largest length and weights. Something is wrong here.


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