Stacker or cheater

[greenhornet73]

I am having a hard time keeping my offshore releases from false releasing my spoons on my stackers.  Would I be better off just using cheaters on each rigger rod or is the hookup percentage pretty poor that way?  Also wondering if 8-10’ is a standard cheater length or if longer is a bad idea.  I will probably invest in a couple chamberlains for next year since they sound more reliable with heavier baits.

[Sweet Caroline]

Pinned cheaters with rubber bands. 6 ft leads, use good swivels. Haven’t stacked in 15 years

[greenhornet73]

So what happens to the pinned cheater when you reel in a fish on the bottom lure. Will the rubber band just break off at the tip and the cheater slides down?

Edited August 31, 2019 by greenhornet73
Misspell

[Chowdaire]

Yep. I have Chamberlain stackers. Almost never use them. Fixed or free sliders.

 

Not going to say you can't go with a longer leader but remember that the swivel will stop at the top of your bottom spoon so that's as close as you can get for netting. Also, you'll find they wrap around the main line when clearing the line so the less of that you have to deal with the better.

[greenhornet73]

Oh good point, I didn’t think about if they actually hit the cheater and I have to net it 🙄 

[Chowdaire]

4 minutes ago, greenhornet73 said:

So what happens to the pinned cheater when you reel in a fish on the bottom lure. Will the rubber band just break off at the tip and the cheater slides down?

 

My fixed cheaters will generally stay on the line so I have to take them off by hand if the fish is on the bottom spoon. Same as dealing with a planer board to me. If it got real hairy you may be able to reel them down the line but I've never had a problem taking them off on my own.

 

The fun comes when you get fish on both. I've only landed both fish once. Usually have them run away from each other and one pulls the hook. Once had one in the net and the one on the cheater ran into the prop on the kicker and got cut off. The joys of fishing solo.

[greenhornet73]

With salmon or something smaller like walleyes?? I can’t imagine having 2 salmon hit one rod.  Double header perch on an ice rod are fun but 2 Kings is another level

[Chowdaire]

3 minutes ago, greenhornet73 said:

With salmon or something smaller like walleyes?? I can’t imagine having 2 salmon hit one rod.  Double header perch on an ice rod are fun but 2 Kings is another level

 

Kings. My assumption is it's like when you catch a smallie and the others in the school are chasing it trying to take the lure out of it's mouth and grabbing the bait it's puking up. I kinda picture the one fish ripping on the spoon and others following it while the cheater swings around and they slam it. Can't say that's for sure what's happening but I've had it 4 or 5 times in the past few seasons, and I don't fish 'em that much, so it can't be that uncommon.

[greenhornet73]

Wow thanks guys for the responses.  It’s a game changer being able to run 6 lures with only 4 rods

[greenhornet73]

I just read an article on it that mentioned not running cheaters on a mainline that has a paddle on the end.  It makes sense that it would probably tangle all up in the spinning flasher.  That changes my game plan

[greenhornet73]

I was going to run flasher/fly and flasher/ meat on my 2 riggers then run cheater spoons above with dipseys off the sides

[Chowdaire]

I only cheat spoons after reading a lot about it on here. Solo I run 1 rigger with spoons cheated. One rigger with meat. And a FF off a dipsy.

 

I run the meat on the rigger, again, for netting solo. The dipsy with leader plus twinkie/meat rig puts it into hand-lining range for netting. I can run a dipsy with ff and just barely get the net under the fish solo. Same with meat behind a 13" flasher off the rigger.

[jimski2]

Be aware there is a rule counting total hook points on a line. A J13 plug has nine hook points, I believe it is 15 hook points.


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[Sk8man]

Some comments for folks that haven't had the experience of fishing solo or are new to it:

The solo fisherman is a strange animal... we always want to maximize our chances of catching fish, but minimize our limitations in the process and often fail to see that what we are doing is all about "risk management". After stacking and using cheaters both sliding and fixed for more than 40 years and fishing solo for much of it it seems that there are a few aspects to it that become essential in determining the outcome: a) anticipation of potential outcomes when setting up ( including multiple fish at the same time on the same rod or two rods), b) how to maintain boat control and speed while fighting the fish, and c) netting considerations. Situation a involves planning the exact  set-up of the rods and lines beforehand and anticipating what might happen and how to react to multiple fish - usually with fish on multiple rods you have to determine quickly which fish you might be able to let take out drag, adjusting it properly and staying in the rod holder while dealing with the other. Issue b involves the use of an autopilot for many folks  now in reducing the load by one person which you don't have - but for many of us without the option it involves letting the boat go with the wind for easier control while slowing the motor enough to allow the fish to be "towed' by the weight of the boat a bit tiring them out  more quickly. Most of the time you will not be doing "catch and release" with kings either as they will be spent. Issue c involves thinking beforehand about how you are going to accomplish netting while holding the rod as well, and how you are going to position yourself within the boat (and not outside it). I used to use long leads on my attractor set-ups and then hand line fish into the net and this still can work for smaller fish but for angry kings risks of losing the fish or getting severe cuts to your fingers are increased ten fold. I keep the total length to just short of my rod length (e.g. 6-7 ft or so for an 8 1/2 ft. rod) and set the rod in the rod holder with the drag adjusted so that it is a little tighter than usual but still below breaking strength of the line once the fish is tired and more cooperative...but positioning of the rod holder is something to consider beforehand too. As far as the free-slider vs. the fixed slider I think the free slider has significant advantages both action-wise and in terms of "simplicity" over the fixed approach, but with the fixed approach using the rubber band - selection of the specific rubber band is important. I use the little rubber bands used by females for their hair as they break fairly easily and they are very small and can be reeled right into the reel through the line guide if necessary without messing with the remaining band on the line with the fish on the other end. Using a fixed or free slider cheater  above an attractor, or with a stickbait at the end of a mainline can be done but it often leads to  various tangling problems especially with fish like kings and probably not worth the effort or risk of losing or messing up your equipment. Again, just my own two cents thrown in for what it is worth

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Sk8man

[greenhornet73]

Awesome input, this is all really helpful and cutting down the learning curve.  Can someone explain to me how to attach the rubber band to the line to keep it from sliding up and down?

[Sk8man]

There are many ways to do this and I'm sure others have ideas here but this is what I have used for about 30 years. The rubber bands can be found in craft stores or perhaps dollar stores, the shrink wrap at automotive stores, the duolock snaps can be ordered from many places (largest possible size), trot line clips (used for set lines or trot lines for catfish etc.I used to get at Netcraft (online). Bought a bunch a long time ago so not sure if they still carry them) P.S. They carry a lot more items in their printed catalog than are listed on their website)

Edited August 31, 2019 by Sk8man

[greenhornet73]

Oh nice that’s a sweet set up, thanks for sharing

[greenhornet73]

That’s basically a cable clip stacker release minus the leader with a rubber band at the end instead of an offshore type release.  Brilliant!

[Sk8man]

works anyway. Used to use this version too and for a regular downrigger release before the Blacks came out

Edited August 31, 2019 by Sk8man

[tuffishooker]

Lots of good practical information ! Some of my best company on Lake Ontario has been fishing alone LOL !

Stacker length is important 5 to 6 feet :too short will not work too long may tangle ! I like fixed stackers , I want to know were the second lure is !

I have had 2 fish on at the same time but as been posted one got off !

[ifishy]

Sk8man always has great answers and a lot of homemade versions gotta respect someone always tweaking and experimenting our hottest spoons this year have been taped up custom jobs personally I like free sliders as it's a good way to cover more water column

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[Sk8man]

Thanks ifishy. Hopefully we will get another chance to connect like at Hughes last season and chat some more

Edited September 2, 2019 by Sk8man

[Neo1945]

Les, let me know if you need more of the rubber bands I sent you a couple years back.

[Low Baller]

Hey Hornet, hope you're doing well. I've learned alot from reading Sk8man's tricks. As far as stacking, it works great when conditions are right, but gets real ugly when it's not. For instance, in the finger lakes everything has to be tweeked for dealing with smaller fish. I've drowned my share of dinks. In The O, it turns into caos with kings. But I'm a small craft, so I can't risk to much or it becomes a safety issue. I did drop a slider on a rigger cable this past Saturday and wound up drowning a dink Atlantic. Wanted to see what the smaller fish where hanging at 40'. Keep it simple.
Just my opinion. Good luck.

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[greenhornet73]

Thanks Baller.  Still waiting for a chance to get on the lake again, hopefully tomorrow.   I see what you are saying about stackers, I trolled a short walleye around for who knows how long last week but fortunately was able to release it.