Regulation change to steelhead limit on Lake Ontario

[GAMBLER]

Steelhead caught on long junk lines when the thermal cline is deep are toast.  I don't care how hard you try, they are spent and DO NOT revive well at all.  They go in the cooler on my boat.  I'm not going to throw a steelhead over the rail that is going to have its eyes picked out by a seagull and wasted. 

[bandrus1]

I do not think this change will impact the steelhead population one bit.... show me a lake ontario charter with a 4 man limit of steelhead.... hardly if ever happens

[Legacy]

I honestly can't take it...

"Let us regulate ourselves into prosperity" said no one ever!

Let's find and deal with the real issues here. Let's increase the quality of our product and change our stocking practices to make fishing better.
"I declare mediocre fishing for everyone!"
Is the goal to make our fishery better? Are you telling me that these regulations are the best practices that we have to make our fishery better. In my eyes all I see is opportunity being taken away for both the lake fisherman and the tributary fisherman. Size restrictions and creel limit adjustments... last time I checked this is a put and take fishery. Sounds to me like the opportunity to be fisherman is being taken away. Hear that? That's the sounds of politicians making things better for you. God forbid someone wants to take home a limit of fish from the tribs. He gets crucified. God forbid someone wants to practice c&s on some skinny water spring browns. By the sounds of it the only group of fisherman that gladly support all of these regulation changes would be the elite group of trib guys. Wow doesn't a catch and release fishery sound fun? I can't even imagine the number of emails the DEC has seen from these guys regarding these changes. Good luck sorting through those to see any opposition. Most of the sportsman that are seen fishing the tribs don't want to see these go through. Certainly none of the guys I have talked to. I don't even fish the tributaries anymore but I still do not want these changes.
Just a crazy thought... I want a better effort put into good science. Not some lazy ass effort by adding more laws and regulations. Let us take from some and give to others. Textbook politically influenced socialism. Well we can't make everyone happy so how about we provide bare minimum for all? If you can't make good scientific decisions to manage the fishery then maybe you shouldn't be making decisions.

Rant over.

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[rolmops]

57 minutes ago, Legacy said:

I honestly can't take it...

"Let us regulate ourselves into prosperity" said no one ever!

Let's find and deal with the real issues here. Let's increase the quality of our product and change our stocking practices to make fishing better.
"I declare mediocre fishing for everyone!"
Is the goal to make our fishery better? Are you telling me that these regulations are the best practices that we have to make our fishery better. In my eyes all I see is opportunity being taken away for both the lake fisherman and the tributary fisherman. Size restrictions and creel limit adjustments... last time I checked this is a put and take fishery. Sounds to me like the opportunity to be fisherman is being taken away. Hear that? That's the sounds of politicians making things better for you. God forbid someone wants to take home a limit of fish from the tribs. He gets crucified. God forbid someone wants to practice c&s on some skinny water spring browns. By the sounds of it the only group of fisherman that gladly support all of these regulation changes would be the elite group of trib guys. Wow doesn't a catch and release fishery sound fun? I can't even imagine the number of emails the DEC has seen from these guys regarding these changes. Good luck sorting through those to see any opposition. Most of the sportsman that are seen fishing the tribs don't want to see these go through. Certainly none of the guys I have talked to. I don't even fish the tributaries anymore but I still do not want these changes.
Just a crazy thought... I want a better effort put into good science. Not some lazy ass effort by adding more laws and regulations. Let us take from some and give to others. Textbook politically influenced socialism. Well we can't make everyone happy so how about we provide bare minimum for all? If you can't make good scientific decisions to manage the fishery then maybe you shouldn't be making decisions.

Rant over.

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I honestly trust the DEC a lot more than I trust an opinion from a financially interested party. If socialism has to be dragged into a discussion about creel limits, it becomes very obvious to me that the writer has at least one ulterior purpose.

Edited October 26, 2019 by rolmops

[Legacy]

I honestly trust the DEC a lot more than I trust an opinion from a financially interested party. If socialism has to be dragged into a discussion about creel limits, it becomes very obvious to me that the writer has at least one ulterior purpose.

And who exactly is the financially interested party?

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[rolmops]

1 minute ago, Legacy said:

And who exactly is the financially interested party?

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People who get paid to take other people fishing.

[Legacy]

14 minutes ago, rolmops said:

 

People who get paid to take other people fishing.

 

Im getting hit by shrapnel here..

So because I am a charter captain my opinion doesn't have merit. Your own ignorance has you believing that my intentions are at all financial. The things I am involved with in this fishery have zero to do with making money and everything to do with the love of the sport and this fishery. I dare you to argue money with me and how in any way shape or form that comes into play with anything that I do or say about this fishery. I promise you i am not that guy but nice try. 

[rolmops]

I trust the DEC because they have the well being of the lake as their purpose.They try to create a healthy environment, while you want them to create an environment that is geared toward fishing. A healthy environment is about much more than fishing. That is why I claim that you have an ulterior purpose. As for shrapnel, If you ever tasted the real stuff you would not use it to compare our innocent differences of opinion.

[whaler1]

What kind of Kool Aid is it that you love so much.
I’d trust those sportsman whose passion and drive have driven them to do what they love. They have more skin in the game and to suggest that their motives are based on financial gain is a little offensive. Most could net more driving for Amazon.


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[HB2]

Unfortunately there are a lot of financial interests in this fishery . That is what drives it . We all love to go but it  All comes down to dollars and cents . 

I'm sure when  it's time to divvy up funding  the higher ups  in the DEC have to justify what they are asking for . 

That's where the politics come in . Representatives from the LO shoreline counties fight for that funding to continue or improve the fishery to maintain the flow of licence sales ,yes out of state,  and sales tax revenues . And an awfully lot of that is from trib guys . The Pulaski region would be dead without it . 

 

Every bridge on Sandy has a bunch of out of state plates parked . I'm sure the Oak , 18 mile   the Salmon and every major trib is similar . I hate it, and we all know what's going on down there ,  but it's a good thing . A necessary  evil . 

 

Back when the whirling disease was going on , Ron at Orleans. OUTDOORS  said guys were staying home because there were no fish in the creek . And he was feeling it . 

 

The DEC is charged with making sure the fishery is good  . Their jobs kind of depend on it . I can't believe these guys are making a knee jerk decision on this . From what I hear from the state of the lake meeting and other stuff , they seem pretty smart about the fishery to me . 

 

 

[Legacy]

I trust the DEC because they have the well being of the lake as their purpose.They try to create a healthy environment, while you want them to create an environment that is geared toward fishing. A healthy environment is about much more than fishing. That is why I claim that you have an ulterior purpose. As for shrapnel, If you ever tasted the real stuff you would not use it to compare our innocent differences of opinion.

So now because I'm a fisherman my opinion has no merit. That's awesome.

Last time I checked these were fishing regulation changes... And the talk was regarding managing a sport fishery. Yes fishing...

My statement is not anti NYSDEC, I have many friends there. I trust science, feel free to show me the science to back up any claim you have and I will gladly look at it. I distrust politicians and deceptive individuals.

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[Legacy]

What kind of Kool Aid is it that you love so much.
I’d trust those sportsman whose passion and drive have driven them to do what they love. They have more skin in the game and to suggest that their motives are based on financial gain is a little offensive. Most could net more driving for Amazon.


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#truth

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[Mike M]

I'm totally against these proposed changes in open water steelhead regulations. It will hurt more then help the popularity of sport fishing on lake Ontario. Yes it will hurt the charter boats but us rec guys hate it too. Its a question of is it worth it. When summer finally gets here its well known on L.O. if you want to catch fish you go off-shore. Off Niagara county shores that means 400-550 fow. If you want to go out there you better have a seaworthy boat thats mechanically sound. You better have good electronics/GPS too. Not to mention the fishing gear this all costs ALOT of money. The good thing is thats alot of money for our local economy.  For 2 fish per angler whose going to want to spend the money to go that far to catch a couple fish. Whether it be a charter boat or a rec angler. Does not make since unless you really love open water steelhead fishing, which I do.  I hope many/most of you will respond to the DEC on this proposed change and say NO. LEAVE IT AS IT IS. 

[Fat Trout]

On 10/24/2019 at 10:43 AM, Yankee Troller said:

 

 

I also read where the DSR on the Salmon river is making changes by only allowing fly fishing on certain days, and making people move drifts after a certain amount of time. I know the guy who runs the place. He's told me numerous times he has enough guys who would pay $20,000ea to hang out, smoke cigars, catch one or two fish and be content. They wouldn't have to allow the masses in who buy daily and yearly passes. With more land going from public to private up there I can see where this whole trib thing is going.

 

Yeah, that whole move is kind of comical, for now its just one spot for a month but its part of the inevitable movement toward country club.  I've played both sides (lake and river) for years. I had a DSR season pass for 23 years and this year was the first year I dumped it.  I've had enough of the politics, whining and country club direction.  I love the lake, clearing the inlet and trying to solve the day's puzzle in the lake knowing I'm generally left alone in open water. 

[Mike M]

There are fewer boats then ever going off-shore for steelhead and salmon. The cost of running 10-15 or 20 miles off shore is a  factor. If this regulation passes there certainly will be less of us out there. Yes there is alot  steelys/salmon out there. Just very few fisherman trying to catch them.  There will be lots of dead steelys on the surface..They just don't release well in mid summer.  That willl be a shame. Its supposed to be a put and take fishery. How is this a win-win for our L.O. fishery??  Should we just stop mid summer fishing for the sake of the tributary fisherman???

[GAMBLER]

I read all of these reports of 20+ steelhead days on the tribs all the time on facebook and other sites.  I also know a bunch of guys that still put their time in on the tribs and say the steelhead fishing is great.  Sounds like the steelhead numbers are just fine to me.  If you are looking to see 20lb steelhead on Lake Ontario like the old days, those days are a thing of the past.  Yes they still happen occasionally but they are like 40lb salmon.  The lake has changed, the fish have changed. 

Edited October 27, 2019 by GAMBLER

[HB2]

One of the problems , if you can call it that ,  is we have become too  good at catching these fish . There are less fish than there,were 30 years ago but we know the when / where / what of how to get them . 

Trib wise , a,pin outfit in the right hands is deadly . Those fish C&R have a high percentage of survival . 

Look at the boats and equipment we have now . But some of the long line methods used are not conducive for C&R . Hook a fish on a rigger and you can get him in the boat fast . Dipsey , lead core or copper , not so much . They are supper or seagulls treats . 

 

The DEC has a tough job of balance to provide a,good  sustainable fishery to all that demand it . I don't envy them . I'm not going to be an armchair quarterback considering the fishery I love and live for . And how great it is . 

 

Also , as I recall didn't they say at the state of the lake that when they changed the trib limit on steelhead that numbers improved  ?  And that's their reasoning for the proposed change , thinking the same thing will happen ? 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by HB2

[GAMBLER]

The numbers are lower than 30 years ago due to the fact that they stock less. The steelhead die off also took a toll.


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[HB2]

And why do they stock less? Because the bottom of the food chain is less and can't sustain the bait fish  population to sustain the amount of stocks that once was and maintain the size of fish we want . See Michigan. Took 25 years to straighten that out . 

 

But you know that . 

[Legacy]

There is some confusion on regulation changes...

Regulation changes are sometimes put out for comment based on suggestion and not always by scientific means. I think too many people just assume that these and all regulation changes are due to years of scientific study in some secret laboratory in Albany. There are not. They are ideas. If I had to guess I would say half of the ideas for changes dont even begin with a person employed in any of the major agencies. So that would mean that both hunting and fishing regulation changes are the product of sportsman. Do you think antler restriction was something the NYSDEC wanted? No. Hunters wanted that. Not science. They were changes that a small interest group wanted. Nothing else. Unfortunately these things tend to act more as a democracy than a republic and the bigger voice gets heard.

 

[spoonfed-1]

1 hour ago, HB2 said:

And why do they stock less? Because the bottom of the food chain is less and can't sustain the bait fish  population to sustain the amount of stocks that once was and maintain the size of fish we want . See Michigan. Took 25 years to straighten that out . 

 

But you know that . 

You mean stocking numbers for Salmon and Steelhead but not Lake Trout?

 

But you know that.

[bandrus1]

I'm still waiting on pics of lake Ontario charter pictures with 12+ steelhead as their creel

 

It simply doesn't happen enough for this proposal to matter. It is simply lip service to trib guys

Edited October 27, 2019 by bandrus1

[brucehookedup]

I totally disagree with lowering the steelhead limit. This lake has been holding its own for the steelhead since i started back in the seventies. It didn't matter if we were fishing in the stream or lake. Matter of fact with all of this managing the fishery the quality and quantity has gone down in the streams for my perspective and it is NOT from the boat anglers. I can tell stories about the good old days when you could keep 5, and still had awesome stream fishing as well as the lake. Leave the limit for steelhead alone. This would be just one more step to open other doors, god only knows what that might be. Apparently someone already has his mind set as to what is going to happen accepting limited responses

[rolmops]

13 hours ago, Legacy said:

So now because I'm a fisherman my opinion has no merit. That's awesome.

Last time I checked these were fishing regulation changes... And the talk was regarding managing a sport fishery. Yes fishing...

My statement is not anti NYSDEC, I have many friends there. I trust science, feel free to show me the science to back up any claim you have and I will gladly look at it. I distrust politicians and deceptive individuals.

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To start, I never said that your fisherman's opinion has no merit.

Yes these are fishing regulation changes,but as part of a much greater whole and not exclusively for fishing management.

There is a difference between trusting one opinion more than another as opposed to claiming to distrust the individual behind the opinion, although -agreed- with politicians there are way too many other purposes.

And last I do believe us to be on the same side in this case ,which really is the well being and future of the lake, our differences lay in the method ,not the goal.

Edited October 27, 2019 by rolmops

[Gill-T]

Distrust comes from experiences.  We were sold on the idea of increasing water levels on Lake Ontario so more fluffy baby ducks and pike could be born in the flooded cottage yards dotting the bays on the South Shore when in reality it was just a way for the shipping industry to make more money.  Hopefully the DEC can show via actual numbers that there is a return on the changes.  Generally speaking, what is good for the fish is typically good for the fishermen.  There is a fine balance between making the put-and-take fishermen and the C&R fishermen happy.  My hope is they study the results of the changes and don't make the regulations permanent until they can prove via numbers that there is a positive effect.