New Steelhead Open Lake Fishing Reg Update

[Legacy]

1 hour ago, Tall Tails said:

  The next thing these trib guys will want is the Brown trout lake limit reduced.... Mark my words..

 

 

Agreed. The writing is on the wall.

[Yankee Troller]

On 11/24/2019 at 6:57 AM, King Davy said:

The highest angler effort hours are not the summer months. The tributaries angler hour effort has been double the lake effort for many years. That’s not because one is necessarily more popular than the other. The trib season is a full 8 months long. The economic value to these small lake side communities is essential during the fall and winter months when many of these rivers are in full use 7 days a week.


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Take the angler effort from Salmon season in the tribs (August-October) away and I'd be interested to see how the Steelhead angler effort matches up to the lake angler effort. These anglers aren't there for Trout, but if they get one you better believe it's going on a stringer. Take away the trib Salmon crowd and the $$$ spent by trib anglers to impact local towns goes way down. Most Steehead anglers are shopping on-line for their gear, and if you look at the median age for that crowd they aren't forking over money for hotel stays.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Yankee Troller

[reelxite]

There is one thing that I can attest to no matter how you treat a steelhead when he is landed fishing the open lake while trolling, even if you use a process such as a resuscitation/revival tank no one can prove that fish survives absolutely no one. It may swim away but does he survive? I can say this, I have caught salmon that I know have been caught before due to wounds on their mouths, I assume that they have been caught as skippers and received the wounds when being released. In my 37 years of fishing on the lake I have never caught a steelhead that showed any indication of being caught and released. I have caught a few that had small hooks in them which at one time probably had egg sacks attached but that is it. So even if this reg. is adopted there is no way to identify if it works. As I said before it is a feel good reg. with no way to assess its impact.

Lets look at a little bit more of history, there is a very important condition that should be adhered to when stocking fish at a site. The water temp at the site must not be more than 10 degrees different than the temp in the delivery truck. A number of years back while delivering steelhead and salmon to a site for the pen project that condition occurred. The fish where placed in the pens anyway because once the trucks leave the hatchery they cannot bring the fish back so they have to be stocked. All looked fine when the trucks left, but the next day the pen project coordinator for the site returned to find 10,000 dead steelhead and 50,000 salmon swimming happily. Let face it steelhead are far more fragile than salmon. With that information catching a steelhead 80 foot down in 45 degree water and bringing him up to 65 degree water a 20 degree change is fatal no matter if he swims away or not.

This stocking issue has since been addressed and there are alternate options put in place to handle it.

The issue here is with the continued reduction of salmon stocked on the lake over the past few years and another possible reduction in the 2020 stocking on the south shore fishing offshore may become more prevalent. That being said more steelhead will/could possibly show up in our catches as happen in the late 90's under the same scenario, I know we as professional and recreational anglers do not want to kill any more fish than we have to lowering the limit to 2 will force us to do exactly that. Since our total limit on silvers will remain 3 and we will need to try to complete our box, we will still be fishing possibly catching more steelhead putting them at risk and most likely their demise. Leaving the limit at 3 will actually put less fish at risk since once we catch our 3 for each person on the boat our fishing day is over.

 

I do not have to go over the reasons why we will still be fishing in the same water and this will happen since it has been covered many times before.,

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by reelxite

[HB2]

3 hours ago, Tall Tails said:

  I used to throw Steelhead back even if I was fun fishing.  Not anymore they are going to get the bat between the eyes just like the legal sized useless Atlantic 

 

Now that's the spirit ! 

 

Nice to know we can count on you to do the right thing . 

 

 

[Missdemeanor]

Not really a choice now.... Playing nice in the sandbox has not worked...plan B will have to do

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[King Davy]

The meeting at the hatchery in Feb of 2017 was and invite by DEC, and there were Charter Boat capt’s. In attendance that fished the river and the lake. The meeting minutes were printed out and available at the state of the lake meetings the following month. Anybody could pick them up and read them. Not one word was mentioned about lake anglers killing too many fish etc etc etc.

I have no idea where you folks come up with this stuff, but the end all is TU paying the DEC? Really. Paying for what? And if you are accusing somebody of something , then put the names, dates, times on the table. Don’t just spew the same old garbage time after time with no proof or facts to back it up.

Rick the young lady steward who stopped by Sandy Creek last week said she’d already done 800 interviews on that stream alone.

This weekend on the salmon river it was jam packed with people. Easily 500 or more people fishing. The Genny last week had 50 anglers in high water on a Wednesday. Our tribs are and will be busy right till the end of April next year. I’m in them an average of four days a week so I’m seeing it first hand.

Steelhead get caught in the lake and rivers over and over and survive. Any fish released and swims away doesn’t carry a guarantee it’s still alive a day... a week , or a month later. And I’m happy to show you close up shots of steelhead with their gums roughed up from multiple hookings.

I’ve heard from Charter Boat capts as well as recreational anglers that they successfully release steelhead on the lake all the time. Maybe they are simply better at handling fish.

We’ve all got a better story these days. What ever DEC decides to do about stocking, any regs changes etc is about them making a management decision that best fits their strategy to keep the entire fishery viable for all year round stake holders.

There are way more serious issues than a creel limit change, size limit change, extending a season etc. if our predator to pray ratio is out of whack and gets worse, we’ll all be fishing for perch.




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[reelxite]

20 minutes ago, King Davy said:

Steelhead get caught in the lake and rivers over and over and survive. Any fish released and swims away doesn’t carry a guarantee it’s still alive a day... a week , or a month later. And I’m happy to show you close up shots of steelhead with their gums roughed up from multiple hookings.

I’ve heard from Charter Boat capts as well as recreational anglers that they successfully release steelhead on the lake all the time. Maybe they are simply better at handling fish.

 

I will agree that steelhead caught in the rivers can survive until they have been caught to many times, I see drop back fish all the time on the lake that I know have been caught in the streams I will agree with that. Also steelhead caught in cold water conditions on the the lake like April and May, have a chance though small because they are caught on long lines. But caught in July, Aug and Sept. when most of them have been caught on the lake they are doomed. There is no evidence that they survive if released, again it looks good when they swim away but I challenge anyone to prove to me they survive, a day, a week or a month. The mouths would not be just ruffed up there would be clear evidence with disfigured mouths and in my experience that does not occur.  Like is does with Salmon which have a much harder stronger mouth.

Edited November 25, 2019 by reelxite

[King Davy]

Once again Bob I don’t discount your experience and hopefully you don’t discount mine. As a serious steelhead angler if I didn’t have the experiences of catching and releasing steelhead any time of the year and the many others I fish with and have fished with for decades having similar success I couldn’t possibly support the reg. I do because of what I’ve experienced since the mid 70’s on the lake and in our rivers.

 

 

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[reelxite]

Dave I have no animosity towards you or anyone who supports this change personally. I respect your right to your opinion. I know we have been on opposite sides of these debates before and I am sure we will be again.

Edited November 26, 2019 by reelxite

[King Davy]

The one thing we all hope for is that we get the predator prey balance we need whether it’s as bad as it looks or not so we can all enjoy this world class fishery in its truest form.


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[jimski2]

The best eating fish are brown trout. The best eggs for bait are brown trout eggs. The best fighting fish is bringing up a sixteen pound brown trout from off the bottom in fifty five foot of water with six pound test Trilene.


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[RD9]

I charter mostly on Erie fish Ontario in the spring and keep every  stealhead I catch only because they don’t make it. I have tried everything they go back in and look fine until you circle back and it’s floating on the surface. If you could unhook them while in water that works better but not always possible due to boat size, conditions and people wanting a picture. Once that fish goes in a net it’s dead from my experience.  Throwing a dead fish back really bothers me so we simply stopped throwing them back because of past experiences. Changing the limit in the lake will do nothing beside help feed birds. 

[whaler1]

The best eating fish are brown trout. The best eggs for bait are brown trout eggs. The best fighting fish is bringing up a sixteen pound brown trout from off the bottom in fifty five foot of water with six pound test Trilene.


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I wouldn’t know what they taste like but totally agree with the rest.
Big browns are unique in their fight.
Close to the boat and the battle begins.
The poor guy with the net thinks over and over that it’s time. My 2011 fish took over a half hour on 10lb seaguar to put in the boat. 20 plus after the first time it got close. Nothing like them.


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[GAMBLER]

I would rather eat Coho, Atlantic’s and steelhead over browns.


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[whaler1]

I’ll stick to pizza and wings.
Keep my LO footprint to a minimum.


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[Missdemeanor]

So King Davy.... Dave Agness... Your saying that Trout Unlimited had nothing to do with helping these regulations get passed?


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[King Davy]

I’m sure trib anglers that may be a member of a trout unlimited chapter have written in to respond to the regs along with trib anglers who aren’t a member of TU or any other organization. If your asking did TU as an organization officially submit responses to DEC the answer is no.

So did professional charter boat associations respond in an official capacity?







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[King Davy]

And BTW these regs haven’t been passed. The comment period still goes for another two weeks. I have no idea after 12/14 when the comment period closes will DEC decide to accept them or not.


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[justtracytrolling]

I hear a lot about filling a box for customers...that's garbage...TEACH just a touch of conservation.  Don't care if I go broke I'll never sell out my moral compass to book extra trips.  There is NO limiting out on any species on my boat anymore.  I haven't had 1 person complain when I explain my conservation practices.  My first brown trip the captain who I won't name insisted I take a limit so he could get his pics...I took the limit but refused to let him photograph it...now I go with captain Vince and he lets me put some back and actually encourages it.  Also just because a customer wants a picture doesn't mean you have to let them handle a fish that is going back.  I swear it's getting ridiculous with the pics...I think guys wouldn't leave the dock if they forgot their camera...can't we just fish?  I realize in a put and take fishery releasing fish isn't such a big deal, but I still think captains should never miss an opportunity to teach ethics and conservation.  I get it's a business as I'm in it, but it should be a love affair with the fishery not just pictures of fish hanging from hooks on a marina sign...

[jimski2]

The Alaska salmon catch rate is you may net a salmon and you can release it from the net. If you lift the net with the salmon in it, you fill out your catch card and put your fishing pole down and sit there while the rest of the boat continues fishing. How many meals can you make with a twenty pound salmon? This would surely end the stocking complaints.


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[RD9]

1 hour ago, justtracytrolling said:

I hear a lot about filling a box for customers...that's garbage...TEACH just a touch of conservation.  Don't care if I go broke I'll never sell out my moral compass to book extra trips.  There is NO limiting out on any species on my boat anymore.  I haven't had 1 person complain when I explain my conservation practices.  My first brown trip the captain who I won't name insisted I take a limit so he could get his pics...I took the limit but refused to let him photograph it...now I go with captain Vince and he lets me put some back and actually encourages it.  Also just because a customer wants a picture doesn't mean you have to let them handle a fish that is going back.  I swear it's getting ridiculous with the pics...I think guys wouldn't leave the dock if they forgot their camera...can't we just fish?  I realize in a put and take fishery releasing fish isn't such a big deal, but I still think captains should never miss an opportunity to teach ethics and conservation.  I get it's a business as I'm in it, but it should be a love affair with the fishery not just pictures of fish hanging from hooks on a marina sign...

Completely understand and agree but the reality is with most clients they want to take their limit to eat. Concerning the trout issue is that they don’t have a successful release survival rate. Pictures aside trying to unhook them fish in the water can be dangerous in rough conditions. Same thing with walleye on Erie you can’t guarantee that fish will survive caught deep. The best conservation practice is to take your limit and go home. Trolling deep water fish in any capacity and netting them then releasing them kills more then we most think  Not that I care about lakers but when caught deep with warm surface temperatures they die upon release over 50 percent. The argument capt bob said is that reducing the lake limit or even increasing the size limit will do nothing to help the fishery. Simply put that the majority of anglers target salmon,  stealhead that look questionable upon catch will be realeased and eventually dead. Someone might as well eat if it’s going to die. 90 percent of clients I have taken have a goal of bringing home a limit and those regulations are set for a reason. This specific regulation for me just doesn’t make a lot of common sense. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by RD9

[Missdemeanor]

I'd say trout unlimited is heavily involved... Isn't that a picture of you giving a presentation to trout unlimited rochester pushing for the backing of these new regulations.... I can tell you we have not approached a special interest group in order to get regulations passed. .... Unethical in my eyes... But who am I?


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[whaler1]

Boom


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[HB2]

There is LOTSA 

 

And charter boat associations , or am I wrong . 

 

These to me are Special interest groups . 

 

Just sayin 

[jimski2]

The results of TU on the Wiscoy Creek is the East Koy is gridlocked with fishermen while the Wiscoy is almost unfished on the season opener period.