New Steelhead Open Lake Fishing Reg Update

[King Davy]

Well Bob, you and I have been sitting on this panel forever, with me representing trib stakeholders. A reach out looking for help would have been nice before you shut it down. I’m sure I could have helped muster some folks. Even though I’m over an hour away there are people out that way in Hilton, Hamlin and Greece that would spin up. Not many trib guys are members of LOU.

It should be all about working together my friend. Still seems to be a giant hurdle. Pretty sad.


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[reelxite]

Dave, we have always asked for help and have always posted on this site and facebook on multiple pages, also making it general knowledge in the community buy posting notices at the local places of business when help was needed, (Ron B always knew what was going on) did not know we needed to send a special invitation to the trib anglers to get their attention, and if we did where would we sent it. Would like to think if they cared about the fishery they would attempt to find out when work needed to be done, the lake anglers do! Its not a secret when the work needs to be done the the lake anglers are always asking when the pens need to be put together when the fish are coming. The trib guys could have stepped up any time and taken over the steelhead portion of the project to show they cared but never did and never asked. they just let it go to the wayside and did not care to ask. It was not until the DEC made it a priority and came up with the funds to support it that something happen. And then it was lake a guy that helped facilitate the construction of the pens for free. As you can tell when it comes to the pen rearing you pushed the wrong button!

[King Davy]

DEC didn’t make it a priority. If it was we had people volunteer at Sandy and they did help raise Chinooks. Would have loved to raise steelhead there but you took your pens you lent them... in other words ...your ball and went home because your mad

about this reg. And you refused to have steelhead raised in them.

 

I drove by them as they sat dry docked across the street from the Marina, when they could be raising 10,000 more steelhead that I guess with all the fuss really IS important to lake fisherman with all the angst over this reg.

 

I’m sure you won’t be counting on a big in shore run of pen fish in 2022.. after the Oak king pen team dropped your nets at 3pm on a sunny afternoon with 500 cormorants sitting in the trees above them, and the one guy I know of Ron B ... tried to keep the birds off the fish with popper shells for the next few days while those birds just crushed those fish

 

Not sure why you risked 92,000 salmon to those rats in broad day light. If you were all too busy you could have let Ron know and we could have handled it for you like we did our rainbows in the dark.

 

And you’re no young pup. We are of the culture that if we need something we call our buddies or guys who we think can help. I don’t handle my business on FB or websites. I use and old fashion thing like a phone or at least an email.

 

There are many who have sat in our panel meeting and heard you say over and over you don’t target steelhead. Yet this current situation seems to have you all unglued.

 

I know the DEC is checking this site every day. And of course they are following this soap opera. They are getting and eye full of the us against them attitude when they are in managing this fishery for all. So keep it up boys. I’m sure it will serve you well come decision time.

 

 

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[whaler1]

I had no stake in this thread, I don’t eat fish, kill very few. Have fished both lake and tribs since the 80’s.

Based on what I’m reading I’m wondering if I should do my part to preserve this precious resource.

My lease runs north of Church rd to Priem. Both sides of the creek. I’ve always allowed access to all but perhaps I should consider other options?

 

 

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[reelxite]

Dave, again you are wrong the pens not being use for steelhead in Sandy had nothing to do with the Reg. it was not even proposed at the time, get your facts correct, to bad you are really out of touch. Also it is not my decision alone to make any more with the pen project at the Oak it is being transitioned to the younger men that support it and it is done as a group which I am part of, again you are out of touch. So the fish being released at the time they were released was not my decision, and I guess it was our fault that the fish stayed in the river for 3 days, again you are out of touch. And I will give you a little know fact, we went to TU when we started the Pen project in 1998 and they gave us nothing, It was totally financially supported by lake interests, something again you dont know. If you are going to make statements get your facts right.

Edited December 1, 2019 by reelxite

[spoonfed-1]

2 hours ago, King Davy said:

DEC didn’t make it a priority. If it was we had people volunteer at Sandy and they did help raise Chinooks. Would have loved to raise steelhead there but you took your pens you lent them... in other words ...your ball and went home because your mad

about this reg. And you refused to have steelhead raised in them.

 

I drove by them as they sat dry docked across the street from the Marina, when they could be raising 10,000 more steelhead that I guess with all the fuss really IS important to lake fisherman with all the angst over this reg.

 

I’m sure you won’t be counting on a big in shore run of pen fish in 2022.. after the Oak king pen team dropped your nets at 3pm on a sunny afternoon with 500 cormorants sitting in the trees above them, and the one guy I know of Ron B ... tried to keep the birds off the fish with popper shells for the next few days while those birds just crushed those fish

 

Not sure why you risked 92,000 salmon to those rats in broad day light. If you were all too busy you could have let Ron know and we could have handled it for you like we did our rainbows in the dark.

 

And you’re no young pup. We are of the culture that if we need something we call our buddies or guys who we think can help. I don’t handle my business on FB or websites. I use and old fashion thing like a phone or at least an email.

 

There are many who have sat in our panel meeting and heard you say over and over you don’t target steelhead. Yet this current situation seems to have you all unglued.

 

I know the DEC is checking this site every day. And of course they are following this soap opera. They are getting and eye full of the us against them attitude when they are in managing this fishery for all. So keep it up boys. I’m sure it will serve you well come decision time.

 

 

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You mean anybody that opposes this regulation should shut up? Sounds like a threat of some kind. Seems to me the DEC will get a better understanding of exactly how the fishermen here feel about this regulation change by reading this thread. Facts matter whether they suite your agenda or not.

Edited December 1, 2019 by spoonfed-1

[King Davy]

Bob the first public awareness of these regs came out in Jan of this year with a comment period in Feb. was mentioned in all the state of the lake meetings in March. Maybe you weren’t at RIT in March but some charter guys got all riled up.

I was at the Sandy Creek Pen Meeting. (And Rob I thank you for being mature enough to invite us even if you don’t lean in our direction)

We heard exactly why you pulled those pens Bob. Everybody did.
The regs were out to the public in the winter of this year. So your time line excuse is bogus.. as was your reason to take your pens and dry dock them to not be used for steelhead. Which now all of a sudden seems to be extremely important to both lake and trib anglers

Next you are throwing the Younger guys under the bus for a decision to cut loose nearly 100,000 fish to feed the rats who were sitting in those trees right in front of the pens. So some experienced foresight from you and older long time veteran of this operation who was on site wouldn’t speak up and say... “hey boys maybe we should come back at dark” this isn’t a good idea.

It truly doesn’t matter what happens with these regs in the end. If they are enacted you’re still going fishing, your lake life isn’t ending if you can only kill two steelhead a day per man instead of three. The impact is minimal. And if your only catching steelhead and have your limit drive off them. Not rocket science. It’s a big lake with miles and miles of water to fish.

And if they are turned down life will go on. We’ll still chase fish in our rivers as we always have. The real problem lies in the food web. If those wild fish in the Salmon River don’t have a banner hatch the dark days are on their way.

If any of you would like to join some trib guys on some tree planting to preserve the richest spawning grounds in any NYS river as we’ve been doing for the past 13 years I’ll be glad to get you included. We won’t shut you out just because you like to fish the lake. We don’t care where or how you fish as long as you are in for the long haul on trying to preserve the fishery for everybody.




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[HB2]

Last year was the third year I attended the Sandy creek pen meeting.  Decided when I bought our cottage to get involved  . Prior to that , I put money in the jars at the bait stores,. I guess I did not know what I was,getting into . I am there to work hard to do my part to ensure a good fishery ,which I enjoy .

 

I walked into the meeting and Sat down . I don't know most by name.  A man came in shortly after me I have never seen before and Sat down right next to me . Turned out it was Dave and his wife  . 

 

Rob started the meeting and shortly into it we were told that we would only be penning kings as the other pen that was on loan from the Oak ,would not be available  If it was to be used for steelhead . A protest of sorts by  The Oak guys. We were informed the reasoning was in protest to the proposed regs , which I knew nothing about.  A discussion was had and Dave explained to us the reasoning why for the proposal , and how the DEC was going to manage the fishery going forward . A back and forth was had, some over the pen at which time I asked and said " so this is being done to be vindictive? " it seemed many in the room supported the protest at which time I voiced I was not . 

 

I watched the state of the lake on line and Genny reps there said if the regs are passed they would not do steelhead either . 

 

This is my knowledge as I remember it . 

 

 Some are stating that if this passes they will box or kill every steelhead they catch . 

 

All I know is if I were head of the DEC and knew of the turmoil this was causing and the efforts of some to strongarm them in their decision making my new policy would be this : 

 

" We,have decided to keep all stocks at the hatchery for the full term and direct stock all until further notice . We appreciate the efforts of the volunteers but there has,been some confusion on the availability of the pens . 

 

 

[King Davy]

Hey Glen go back to the start of this thread. Bob said hey everyone write in and say you oppose this reg. Find my first response stating that don’t just write in an say you oppose you must state solid reasons why.

Then go look for Bob’s post stating he called DEC and yes you have to put in your reason for oppose or in favor. If I didn’t think everyone should have a fair shake I never would have offered the correct information so your thoughts and everyone else’s would be considered.

If you write in and simply email them I don’t agree they won’t even read it. You can try and pick a fight with me all you want. I’m not going to bite Glen. Just do your thing.


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[reelxite]

Dave what you don't know is that the pen was not pulled for the new steelhead reg. It had nothing to with that it had to do with a cut in stocking in salmon in the pens at the Oak, so if that is what Rob told you it is absolutely wrong. You can verify this with Legard because we were very upset with the cuts to the pen project and him and I had a very long discussion about the whole subject.

 

48 minutes ago, King Davy said:

Next you are throwing the Younger guys under the bus for a decision to cut loose nearly 100,000 fish to feed the rats who were sitting in those trees right in front of the pens. So some experienced foresight from you and older long time veteran of this operation who was on site wouldn’t speak up and say... “hey boys maybe we should come back at dark” this isn’t a good idea.

 

But again you dont know the facts I did and was over ruled by the rest of the committee. I throw no one under the bus!

 

31 minutes ago, HB2 said:

" We,have decided to keep all stocks at the hatchery for the full term and direct stock all until further notice . We appreciate the efforts of the volunteers but there has,been some confusion on the availability of the pens . 

 

They have every right to do that.

 

One last thing when TU did not give us financial support for the pen projects it was because they wanted us to support a cut in the steelhead harvest on the lake, whats that called "quid pro quo"

Edited December 1, 2019 by reelxite

[spoonfed-1]

Just now, King Davy said:

Hey Glen go back to the start of this thread. Bob said hey everyone write in and say you oppose this reg. Find my first response stating that don’t just write in an say you oppose you must state solid reasons why.

Then go look for Bob’s post stating he called DEC and yes you have to put in your reason for oppose or in favor. If I didn’t think everyone should have a fair shake I never would have offered the correct information so your thoughts and everyone else’s would be considered.

If you write in and simply email them I don’t agree they won’t even read it. You can try and pick a fight with me all you want. I’m not going to bite Glen. Just do your thing.


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Not trying to pick a fight with anybody Dave. The words I quoted were yours not mine. I will point things out when I see BS being thrown around or have questions about statements made. Like the quotes I put up from our discussion from Oct regarding Salmon returns and trib fishing. Why did you make a meaningless threat Dave?

3 hours ago, King Davy said:

 

I know the DEC is checking this site every day. And of course they are following this soap opera. They are getting and eye full of the us against them attitude when they are in managing this fishery for all. So keep it up boys. I’m sure it will serve you well come decision time.

 

 

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[King Davy]

Bob, so taking the pens away because of salmon stocking cuts takes away opportunity for others for a different species that wasn’t cut to where both lake and trib guys could benefit from hopefully getting fish to home in to a local river. What sense does that make?

And I’m not blaming Rob or anyone else for the message. So here’s the question. Let’s say DEC continues cuts this next year maybe even deeper. Those pens staying dry docked or will they be put to use for some good for the entire fishery?


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[Gill-T]

Regulation changes, pen projects, bickering over who said what and when etc etc is not going to fix the fitness of our steelhead. The question that should be asked that has effected steelhead the most IMO is...... what has happened to Emerald Shiner populations? 

[reelxite]

13 minutes ago, King Davy said:

Bob, so taking the pens away because of salmon stocking cuts takes away opportunity for others for a different species that wasn’t cut to where both lake and trib guys could benefit from hopefully getting fish to home in to a local river. What sense does that make?

And I’m not blaming Rob or anyone else for the message. So here’s the question. Let’s say DEC continues cuts this next year maybe even deeper. Those pens staying dry docked or will they be put to use for some good for the entire fishery?

 Again I will restate it pen rearing steelhead has never been focused on the the lake fishery and has little effect on steelhead availability on the lake it has always been focused as a benefit for the tribs.

Edited December 1, 2019 by reelxite

[King Davy]

Ok can’t help myself Bob so tongue in check pen rearing or not you are saying steelhead have always been a greater benefit for trib environments so then the steelhead reg would be an improved path forward to benefit the tributary fishing of Lake Ontario!

Ok nuff fooling around on this.

Have a good night Bob. I know some of you guys would never want to do this. But I’d rather get away from the WWW, find a pub someplace and get together for a beer. We can still yell at each other, but more fun face to face. Some of us might actually like each other. First round is on me.


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[Trouthunter]

13 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

 

Getting TU involved is bad for the charter captains and lake guys.  They may do a lot of good for the stream rehab but TU is a huge organization and has power in numbers.  As seen here, Dave has rallied the troops at TU to send their comments into the DEC to help get these regs passed.  This is just the beginning IMO.  LOSTA, ELOSTA, Genesee River Charter association, ect. are tiny compared to TU. Even if the TU members do not fish steelhead, they will support their clubs decision and send in comments to support the changes. 

Gambler I did not mean to unite with TU but all Charter Captain across Lake Ontario & Lake fishermen need to unite so the word gets out there that we are not going to take this lyning down. I would be happy to help unite our call.

 

[spoonfed-1]

Steelhead released during the summer and early fall and die, while people attempt to get their third fish will benefit no one.

[GAMBLER]

1 hour ago, Trouthunter said:

Gambler I did not mean to unite with TU but all Charter Captain across Lake Ontario & Lake fishermen need to unite so the word gets out there that we are not going to take this lyning down. I would be happy to help unite our call.

 

I was not saying you were.  No worries.  I just wanted to state TU is huge compared to all of our lake clubs and we are out numbered. 

[GAMBLER]

The LOC has now taken steelhead out of the summer derby and replaced them with walleye.  Interesting. 

 LOC 2020
Summer Derby

June 27th – July 26th

$32,250 Cash 

$10,000 Grand Prize
For the largest Salmon

Four Divisions
Salmon, Lake Trout,
Walleye & Brown Trout

Cash Prizes for each division
First Place $1000
Second Place $400
Third Place $300
Fourth Place $200
Fifth Place $100
Sixth Thru 10th Place $75
11th Thru 20th $50

$2500 Big Fish of the Week Prizes!

$1000 weekly for the largest  Salmon entered.
$500 weekly for the largest Lake, Brown and Walleye.

Weekly winners carry over if no fish meets the minimum

WEEKLY DATES

 6/27-7/4, 7/5-7/11, 7/11-7/18, 7/19-7/26

[Trouthunter]

WE shall unite & get our steelhead back & get a great Atlantic program going like Michigan has.

 

[Fat Trout]

11 hours ago, spoonfed-1 said:

Steelhead released during the summer and early fall and die, while people attempt to get their third fish will benefit no one.

At the point this becomes a problem for a charter and someone is  looking for a 3rd fish for each client they are already loading up on steelhead primarily if not exclusively and the other options in that location aren't panning out.  Move or change tactics.  I fish  both sides and have done so for a long time, lake mostly in recent years.  I see both sides and have no problem with taking limits and full boxes daily but I'll never see the need for a box of 9+ steelhead on a single trip.

 

Worst thread I've seen on this forum.  The smash-em in the head with a bat comment on page 1 really took the cake.  

Edited December 1, 2019 by Fat Trout

[Trouthunter]

Will you people stop fighting with each other if you spent as much time bickering about stuff things would get done

 

[spoonfed-1]

2 hours ago, Fat Trout said:

At the point this becomes a problem for a charter and someone is  looking for a 3rd fish for each client they are already loading up on steelhead primarily if not exclusively and the other options in that location aren't panning out.  Move or change tactics.  I fish  both sides and have done so for a long time, lake mostly in recent years.  I see both sides and have no problem with taking limits and full boxes daily but I'll never see the need for a box of 9+ steelhead on a single trip.

 

Worst thread I've seen on this forum.  The smash-em in the head with a bat comment on page 1 really took the cake.  

 

That is your opinion and I respect that. You can't tell clients on a 6 hr trip that we are going to pull our spread and move, maybe find fish maybe not, because Fat Trout can't see you boxing your limit of Steelhead. 9+ boxes of Browns, Salmon or Lakers is OK? Why?

[Fat Trout]

1 hour ago, spoonfed-1 said:

 

That is your opinion and I respect that. You can't tell clients on a 6 hr trip that we are going to pull our spread and move, maybe find fish maybe not, because Fat Trout can't see you boxing your limit of Steelhead. 9+ boxes of Browns, Salmon or Lakers is OK? Why?

Your opinion is yours and that's fine.  I'm not some new guy who doesn't understand about boxes of 9+ other kinds of fish.   I've fished this lake for 30+ years, I know exactly what comes in to port out of sight in white rectangles. More power to those that have good day(s) I don't care, and I personally think TU should go F themselves and stay out of this fishery. However I did run a drift boat from 95' to 2005' and saw exactly what redirected effort did to steelhead in the tribs.    The thing that pisses me off in this thread isn't what we keep its the entitled attitude that we fish for no other reason than to push meat through a grinder in high volume.  

[reelxite]

So my one comment for today, I talked to a fisherman today who fishes both lake and tribs. I also talked to a friend at the Oak. The Oak is very slow could be because the canal is now empty. But the Genny and Sandy are on fire with steelhead, for the past 3 weeks. There have been many fisherman having double digit days catching fish and the guys that really know what they are doing are occasionally doing better than that. Remember this is second hand, I do not fish the tribs, this time of the the year my focus is on whitetail hunting.

So the question is how good does it have to be in the tribs? If the fishing is this good now why do we need the new reg? Is it because the DEC is worried that with all the salmon cuts the last few years, we will have to focus more on steelhead in the future to catch fish on the Lake?

I know they keep tabs on this site and hope they are reading and seeing how big of a divide they are further driving between the trib stakeholders and the lake stakeholders, and I consider many of the DEC guys friends.

Edited December 2, 2019 by reelxite