New Steelhead Open Lake Fishing Reg Update

[King Davy]

Yeah the horse has been out of the barn for many many years on any secret spots in any of our LO tribs. I can walk away from crowds on some waterways and do, but since social media those days are over.

However you can share fish locations in the lake to include Lat Lon numbers and you can still find room to fish because they are always swimming.

If you want to fish any river in the Great Lakes including Canada you are never going to be lonely.




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[King Davy]

Except for some brook trout ponds deep in the Adirondacks.

 

 

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[pvelyk]

I don’t get it.  The big stream guys bust everybody's chops about spot burning but when it’s one of there own no comment.   I get protecting the smaller less widely known streams but shouting out about a run in the Genny or be it the Niagara or Salmon River is crazy.  Even the newest fisherman to the state can easy find those are given stream for a run.    There seems to be a small elitist group of stream fisherman who want to write the rules and pretend they represent all people who fish a creek, stream or river.  I met some great, helpful and teaching guys on the river and streams in the nineties.  When I got back into Lake fishing again after some time off I had a lot of terrible interactions with stream guys who thought they had the only proper way to fish the tribs and they were the keeper of the tribs for everyone.  I don’t what know happened to those good helpful stream guys in the years I didn’t fish but it wasn’t good.  It’s everyone’s resource, fish your way and let other fish there’s as long as it’s legal.

Edited December 2, 2019 by pvelyk

[HB2]

As I have stated before , the crowds,are a necessary evil . 

 

Saw 17 cars at the Church road bridge last week 

 

Half the plates were out of state . 

 

I hate the crowds , but I don't blame the guys for coming 

 

This will ensure continued funding . 

 

The guys that come up need fish to catch  And the DEC  knows it . 

 

Thus  The reg  proposal . 

 

Also , part of the attraction and what makes this fishery great is the diversity of species. When the rod goes off or your float goes down , you never know what it is . 

 

Never had anyone on my boat complain about catching a steelhead or Atlantic . In fact   they are excited about it . As I am . 

 

[King Davy]

There are dozens of web boards up and down the lake from tackle shops to lodging, etc that have daily fishing reports on all these rivers not to mention Instagram, FB etc. DEC is doing stream creel surveys this year from 18 mile to the Black River. Talked to the young lady last week who was touring the western tribs. She’s done 800 interviews on Sandy alone since first of Sept.

 

There are articles in river fishing magazines that name many rivers in this area. The salmon river , save the Kenai in Alaska is the busiest river in the US.

 

I used to get annoyed when these waterways were mentioned but in reality it’s public news every single day. There is no stopping it. I spend a lot of my fall time fishing the sound for bass and tuna or the FL because I can’t get close to the LO smaller or medium size rivers and spend most of my time fishing them once the weather gets nasty. And this year winter started first of November.

 

Crowded rivers are a lot harder to fish then a busy day on the lake. But it’s a lost cause to sit around waiting for people to go away. Just go, set your expectations realistically and fish.

 

 

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[Charlie P]

I sent my opinion to the DEC today. 

My question for the guys that have been dealing with this longer then I have, do they ever decide to not go with proposed regulations? Or is this like when you try and "debate" something with your wife?

[Legacy]

I sent my opinion to the DEC today. 
My question for the guys that have been dealing with this longer then I have, do they ever decide to not go with proposed regulations? Or is this like when you try and "debate" something with your wife?

Lol. Worse. It's like arguing with your ex-wife!!!

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[bandrus1]

Still waiting on a pic of a charter with a lake limit of steelhead 

[Fat Trout]

6 minutes ago, bandrus1 said:

Still waiting on a pic of a charter with a lake limit of steelhead 

 

Here's 9.....good catch.  October even so current events.  I don't know who's who though. 

 

 

 

[bandrus1]

4 minutes ago, Fat Trout said:

 

Here's 9.....good catch.  October even so current events.  I don't know who's who though. 

 

 

 

Ok so we are arguing that saying sorry guys you could only keep 8 not 12 would ruin their day?

[Fat Trout]

1 minute ago, bandrus1 said:

Ok so we are arguing that saying sorry guys you could only keep 8 not 12 would ruin their day?

Well perhaps in this case since there are 5 people and a brown.

 

[bandrus1]

7 minutes ago, Fat Trout said:

Well perhaps in this case since there are 5 people and a brown.

 

So we are arguing that their day would be ruined because they could only keep 10 steelhead not 15?

 

 

That wouldn't even be a legal limit of steelhead under the proposed regulation.

 

Again after all this debate I'm sticking by that this will have 0 impact on lake fishing or tribs because people hardly ever limit out on steelhead on the lake anyway

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by bandrus1

[Fat Trout]

5 minutes ago, bandrus1 said:

So we are arguing that their day would be ruined because they could only keep 10 steelhead not 15?

 

 

That wouldn't even be a legal limit of steelhead under the proposed regulation.

 

Again after all this debate I'm sticking by that this will have 0 impact on lake fishing or tribs because people hardly ever limit out on steelhead on the lake anyway

 

Whos arguing.  I was only replying to your comment that you were still waiting for pictures of limits (or near limits) of steelhead.  Limits happen.  If you target it happens....some places more than others.  If you want your limit take it.   Don't act like it never happens.    

Edited December 3, 2019 by Fat Trout

[bandrus1]

2 hours ago, Fat Trout said:

Whos arguing.  I was only replying to your comment that you were still waiting for pictures of limits (or near limits) of steelhead.  Limits happen.  If you target it happens....some places more than others.  If you want your limit take it.   Don't act like it never happens.    

We have pages and pages of people arguing about it. And like admitted, you couldn't produce a picture of a whole limit. This should really be the end of the argument is that on the whole, it doesn't matter if the limit changes from 3 to 2 it will impact probably .005 percent of all the trips on Lake Ontario and you could probably even circumvent it if you really want to by keeping the Captain's and mate's limit on charters if you insisted

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by bandrus1

[Missdemeanor]

Keeping a Captain and Mate's limit is Illegal

We have pages and pages of people arguing about it. And like admitted, you couldn't produce a picture of a whole limit. This should really be the end of the argument is that on the whole, it doesn't matter if the limit changes from 3 to 2 it will impact probably .005 percent of all the trips on Lake Ontario and you could probably even circumvent it if you really want to by keeping the Captain's and mate's limit on charters if you insisted
 

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[jimski2]

Good eaters! There are 365 days in a year and this happens a few days only.

[bandrus1]

1 hour ago, Missdemeanor said:

Keeping a Captain and Mate's limit is Illegal

 

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I have never seen this before. I'd like to read that regulation

 

Edit it is not illegal

 

"Which takes us to the main point of the blog’s title. With a push to make things more restrictive as far as creel limits in Lake Ontario, should we also be looking at a law or regulation that does not allow captains and/or mates to keep their limits, too? Currently, it’s a gray area. If they have a fishing license, they are entitled to their own limit of fish."

 

https://www.outdoornews.com/2019/02/11/in-the-wake-of-new-regs-proposals-is-it-time-to-restrict-captain-and-mate-limits-on-charters/

Edited December 3, 2019 by bandrus1

[GAMBLER]

24 minutes ago, bandrus1 said:

 

I have never seen this before. I'd like to read that regulation

 

Edit it is not illegal

 

"Which takes us to the main point of the blog’s title. With a push to make things more restrictive as far as creel limits in Lake Ontario, should we also be looking at a law or regulation that does not allow captains and/or mates to keep their limits, too? Currently, it’s a gray area. If they have a fishing license, they are entitled to their own limit of fish."

 

https://www.outdoornews.com/2019/02/11/in-the-wake-of-new-regs-proposals-is-it-time-to-restrict-captain-and-mate-limits-on-charters/

You can not take the captain and mates limit.  By law, if I am fishing with my buddy and I limit out, I technically can not fill the rest of his limit.  I had this conversation with an ECO on the ice. 

[bandrus1]

48 minutes ago, GAMBLER said:

You can not take the captain and mates limit.  By law, if I am fishing with my buddy and I limit out, I technically can not fill the rest of his limit.  I had this conversation with an ECO on the ice. 

I guess I didn't think of the taking, only the possessing part. It still isn't enforceable regardless

[salmonboy41]

8 hours ago, bandrus1 said:

We have pages and pages of people arguing about it. And like admitted, you couldn't produce a picture of a whole limit. This should really be the end of the argument is that on the whole, it doesn't matter if the limit changes from 3 to 2 it will impact probably .005 percent of all the trips on Lake Ontario and you could probably even circumvent it if you really want to by keeping the Captain's and mate's limit on charters if you insisted

 

If the rule doesn't effect anyone as you say why reduce the limit for steelhead from 3 to 2? If it doesn't affect anyone then it will not increase the numbers of steelhead which is the rational for the proposed change. So all this would do if you are correct is just create animosity between lake and trib anglers and open the door for more regulations. Makes one think doesn't it.

[bandrus1]

6 minutes ago, salmonboy41 said:

If the rule doesn't effect anyone as you say why reduce the limit for steelhead from 3 to 2? If it doesn't affect anyone then it will not increase the numbers of steelhead which is the rational for the proposed change. So all this would do if you are correct is just create animosity between lake and trib anglers and open the door for more regulations. Makes one think doesn't it.

I'm not saying it makes sense and I believe it is simply lip service but none the less I don't think it will impact people one way or another

 

If someone has the raw creel survey data let's see the numbers

Edited December 3, 2019 by bandrus1

[bettieanne]

I take my 8 year old son fly fishing when I can, it is something he wanted to do and I support him. I typically make a few cast with my spinning rod as I watch my son learn to fly fish.... we have meet some great people along our journeys as well as many with the personality as a rock... I took my nephew who is 13 and my son 2 weeks ago to sandy, west fork and there were guys literly standing in the water holding "there spot" just standing there with no rod in hand.. therefore blocking future generation s of fisherman to acess the spot.... REALLY.... was sad to see that happening... lucky I dont have wadders like my son does or I de been in there bumping shoulders with the guy... very sad as I read this post as well as eye witnessed what happens in the field.... scary what the future holds in OUR sport, also very few kids out there from what I have seen
... we have yet to land a fish since the salmon run. But we have had fun trying, I tell my son how sucess is not derived from harvests... memories

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[slouiscar]

I am a novice to fishing the lake and I am not well informed on many issues or the stakeholders involved.  So, I typically keep my mouth shut on topics like this.  But in an effort to better understand this discussion, I thought I would share my thoughts and look for feedback from people in here that possess more experience and knowledge than me. 

 

First, I will comment as a recreational fisherman.  We would prefer to release every fish.  I am not trying to eat, or give away, 9 steelhead every weekend.  We do our best to limit handling, drag every fish, and if they don't revive, they go in the box.  We might end up with 2-3 fish a trip.  So, if we release swimmers, what impact would changing the SH limit do on our boat?  Whatever the limit is, if we release 4, or 6, or 20... changing the SH limit for us will not lead to more fish in the streams.  Aside of that, you can write someone a ticket for fishing for bass out of season.  But we are not targeting SH.  Are you going to police boats on Lake Ontario looking for someone releasing a SH landed while targeting salmon?  My point is, I expect that this change will not impact our tactics, or our fish box, in the slightest.

 

That suggests to me that this change is primarily aimed at charters.  Here, I will comment as customer.  For roughly a decade, prior to moving our boat to the lake, we chartered 2-3 trips per year.  We went to catch fish.  Salmon.  We did not measure the success of our trip solely on a picture with a dozen fish at the dock.  I understand the marketing importance of that practice, and I am not critical of it, because I am just as guilty as anyone for trolling instagram and the forum looking for posts about hot trips, depths, lures, etc.  I am just speaking for me personally, if the captain landed fish, permitted a couple pictures, and then gave us the option of a release, I believe we would have kept a few fish for the box and then released the last 80-100 lbs.  I am 100% confident that there are plenty of charters and customers that would strongly disagree with that statement and I respect their opinion.  My opinion is that it should be their choice.  And, I would understand someone making the argument that boxing mature kings manages lake predators and promotes the overall health of the fishery.  My freezer just isn’t that big.

 

All that aside, I struggle with the TU take on stream fishing and their efforts as described here.  I fished the streams for years.  The number of fishermen and the tactics drove me away.  My brother still heads out a dozen plus times a year.  He brings his son, and he invites me to tag along.  I decline, and when I hear stories of fishermen "flossing," I keep my opinions to myself.  Anyway, I would think that a far more effective method of increasing the number of browns and SH in the tributaries would be by policing and enforcing existing stream fishing regulations.  That might not be as sexy to TU as planting trees, increasing stocking, or reducing lake limits, but let’s be realistic, you have a mess on your hands in the streams.  To reasonable observers it would seem that the TU crowd would prefer that people ignore that.  The appearance of lobbying for stricter lake regulations is therefore viewed as a technique to shift attention away from obvious internal issues and on to outside forces potentially impacting tributary fishing.

 

I think it is fair to say that determining how many bait fish are swimming in the lake at a given moment in time is a challenging, inexact, science.  If stakeholders agree and determine that there is a predator-prey issue, and then the DEC chose to tackle that by adjusting stocking rates, I could at least follow the potential rationale.  But a decision to change SH, or brown, limits on the lake does not seem to be designed with that goal in mind.  It seems simply geared towards increasing fish numbers that may make their way into the tributaries.  So, I would argue that this notion that higher fish numbers is all that is needed for a stream fishing utopia for guys with $800 center pin setups is misguided.  Until they effectively tackle existing stream fishing issues, that appear to have been ignored for years, it will continue to be a crowded loosely regulated mess.

 

 

[Missdemeanor]

If I'm duck hunting and I shoot my two redheads, can I legally then shoot my buddy' s two? Nope...... So to go by the letter of the law, once you catch your limit that's it... And I don't stay out on schools of fish sore lipping them or tossing back fish that might not make it . Is it legal? Yes... But in my eyes it's unethical if the fish are not going to make it... Such as summer Steelhead.... A limit is a limit and we are done... That's the law....period!

I guess I didn't think of the taking, only the possessing part. It still isn't enforceable regardless

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[bandrus1]

46 minutes ago, Missdemeanor said:

If I'm duck hunting and I shoot my two redheads, can I legally then shoot my buddy' s two? Nope...... So to go by the letter of the law, once you catch your limit that's it... And I don't stay out on schools of fish sore lipping them or tossing back fish that might not make it . Is it legal? Yes... But in my eyes it's unethical if the fish are not going to make it... Such as summer Steelhead.... A limit is a limit and we are done... That's the law....period!

 

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Well I mean it's not the law. You can legally continue to fish with a limit by law

 

Anyway back to topic

 

If still like to be convinced that this law will actually impact lake guys due to limiting creel limits or impact trib guys increasing return rates. I have yet to see any evidence 

Edited December 3, 2019 by bandrus1