Is there hope ?

[GAMBLER]

They took the outflow to 10,300 and lake st. Lawrence is dropping inches an hour.  Even at 8600 it dropped 2 feet in a couple days so it's just proving exactly what I explained to you.  Water doesnt make it through the neck down in the river fast enough to maintain the water in Lake st. Lawrence to keep up that amount of ouflow.  It's not sustainable and that's why they dont do it non stop like they can when the lake is higher.  Once incoming water from lake ontario can't sustain water levels on Lake st. Lawrence they slow the flow to achieve balance.  They can only take Lake St. Lawrence down so far before they have to reduce flows again so they dont start effecting water supply's to municipalities, river access, etc.  Litterally 3 days at that flow right now has to drop the area above the dam many feet.  We will find out when the numbers are released next week.  It will be cool to see because I dont think theres ever been flows that high in January.  It's a temporary increase and they should be applauded for taking advantage of this window before ice up.    Read the article.  I've tried 9 different ways to explain this to you and it just isnt clicking.
 
https://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/40270/20200102/ijc-rsquo-s-special-winter-management-may-help-lower-lake-ontario-and-the-st-lawrence-river

They must not be too concerned about the level. They went to 10,700.


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[iiwhistlerii]

2 minutes ago, GAMBLER said:

They must not be too concerned about the level. They went to 10,700.


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Gonna be cool to see how far it drops.  That's incredible flow.  I can't even imagine the current right now with the lower water.  Gotta be ripping.  Wish I was up there to check it all out.  I'll see if I can msg some friends and get pics of ramps up above if it goes way down.  Be sweet to see.

[iiwhistlerii]

Really cool to watch this play out.  Lake st. Louis is rising below the dam, Lake st. Lawrence is dropping fast.  I wonder which one will make them cut flows first.  10,700 is unheard of.  I really wish I was up there to check it all out.  They really are just dumping every drop they can while they can.  Kudos.

 

"Outflows at the dam have been increased to 10,700 meters per second This is a new record high level of increase"

 

"Still a bit of room at Lake St. Louis, levels dropping at Lake St. Lawrence still but well above minimums. I’m told we’re likely closing in on our max now, but it will reassess tomorrow."

[horsehunter]

Mother Nature is always in charge and can change her mind whenever she wants

[GAMBLER]

Really cool to watch this play out.  Lake st. Louis is rising below the dam, Lake st. Lawrence is dropping fast.  I wonder which one will make them cut flows first.  10,700 is unheard of.  I really wish I was up there to check it all out.  They really are just dumping every drop they can while they can.  Kudos.
 
"Outflows at the dam have been increased to 10,700 meters per second This is a new record high level of increase"
 
"Still a bit of room at Lake St. Louis, levels dropping at Lake St. Lawrence still but well above minimums. I’m told we’re likely closing in on our max now, but it will reassess tomorrow."

How would they make the hydraulic high of 12,000?


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[iiwhistlerii]

The turbine entry is at the bottom of the dam.  Draining lake st Lawrence is like draining a bathtub through the turbines.  U can drain it faster than its filling.

[iiwhistlerii]

During the summer much more water was flowing in.  Think how much more water 2 feet higher and a mile or more wide is.  Once it drops the current is actually faster too since now ur trying to pull the same amount of water through less area.  That's why the neckdowns  have so much more of a bottleneck effect.  Kind of like going under the peacebrige on erie/niagara.  U can feel urself climb as it swells from the bottleneck and then feel urself actually going downhill.  So 10,700 at it's current level has to be insane current.  Probably some of the strongest ever on the St. Lawrence.

[lost a lure]

5 minutes ago, iiwhistlerii said:

During the summer much more water was flowing in.  Think how much more water 2 feet higher and a mile or more wide is.  Once it drops the current is actually faster too since now ur trying to pull the same amount of water through less area.  That's why the neckdowns  have so much more of a bottleneck effect.  Kind of like going under the peacebrige on erie/niagara.  U can feel urself climb as it swells from the bottleneck and then feel urself actually going downhill.  So 10,700 at it's current level has to be insane current.  Probably some of the strongest ever on the St. Lawrence.

 

Now you're back peddling. You stated that the higher flows are not possible at the current levels. Fact is you don't know what your talking about!

[iiwhistlerii]

5 minutes ago, lost a lure said:

 

Now you're back peddling. You stated that the higher flows are not possible at the current levels. Fact is you don't know what your talking about!

Omg.  Sustained higher flow.  They wont last.  Lake st. Lawrence will hit minimum levels soon enough.  I explained it perfectly with the bottleneck effect and lake st Lawrence dropping 10 times now.  I'm sorry if you didnt comprehend it.

[iiwhistlerii]

Feel free to think about it yourself.  Obviously if putting flow below the dam above 10,000 is making the area above the dam drop then the river as a whole isnt keeping up and isnt flowing 10,000.  The reservoir is emptying but the river isnt providing enough water to keep it full at it's current level with these flows.  That's how it works.  If ur debating still it I'm not sure why.   

 

Heres the final summary in my mind and not many who are going after the ijc with ligit thought processes disagree.  Nobody is after the ijc for how they've handled things in the last 7 months.  Since June they've been incredible at managing the system and nobody who understands the system will even try to debate that.  The last 7 months are the highest flows of all time and the most water ever pushed through the system during that time frame.  Fact.  No debate to be had.  The issue, and what Cuomos lawsuit will be based on is what happened in april and may in both 2017 and 2019.  The ijc chose to save montreal over lake ontario residents and that's where the disagreement takes place.  Of the last 36 months they will be focusing on 4.  The other 32 months have been deviated from 2014 and had higher flows than the plan calls for.  In fact record flows for many of those 32 months.  But the 4 months in question, April and may of 2017 and april and may of 2019 lake ontario got fuxked.  They held back water for 2 months to save Montreal and screwed over lake ontario.  The lawsuit will claim that we dealt with high water over flood stage for many months to save them for a brief period of time.  Why couldnt have they dealt with water a foot higher for those 4 months?  If they were a foot higher for those 4 months it means we could have dropped 4 inches per month during that same time frame.  We'd be 16 inches lower and theyd be lower too right now because it would all be gone.  So that's the legit argument.  Would it have been better to flood montreal with another foot of water for 4 total months to be 16 inches lower on lake ontario today.  That's the battle Cuomo will fight to win in the courts.

Edited January 2, 2020 by iiwhistlerii

[iiwhistlerii]

 
Now you're back peddling. You stated that the higher flows are not possible at the current levels. Fact is you don't know what your talking about!

When they reduce this flow because lake st. Lawrence is reaching minimum levels or lake st. Louis is reaching flood stage in a few days feel free to apologize. I broke it down factually and exactly how it works so you could understand why sustained flows of 10000 arent possible when the lake and upper river are only only as high as they are. I provided you videos, articles, flow charts, water level charts and all the data needed so you could understand and visualize how it all works and still you chose to sling insults. I can only do so much, some guys are just going to let there mind be made up by how high the water is at their dock.

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[lost a lure]

14 minutes ago, iiwhistlerii said:

Feel free to think about it yourself.  Obviously if putting flow below the dam above 10,000 is making the area above the dam drop then the river as a whole isnt keeping up and isnt flowing 10,000.  The reservoir is emptying but the river isnt providing enough water to keep it full at it's current level with these flows.  That's how it works.  If ur debating still it I'm not sure why.   

 

Heres the final summary in my mind and not many who are going after the ijc with ligit thought processes disagree.  Nobody is after the ijc for how they've handled things in the last 7 months.  Since June they've been incredible at managing the system and nobody who understands the system will even try to debate that.  The last 7 months are the highest flows of all time and the most water ever pushed through the system during that time frame.  Fact.  No debate to be had.  The issue, and what Cuomos lawsuit will be based on is what happened in april and may in both 2017 and 2019.  The ijc chose to save montreal over lake ontario residents and that's where the disagreement takes place.  Of the last 36 months they will be focusing on 4.  The other 32 months have been deviated from 2014 and had higher flows than the plan calls for.  In fact record flows for many of those 32 months.  But the 4 months in question, April and may of 2017 and april and may of 2019 lake ontario got fuxked.  They held back water for 2 months to save Montreal and screwed over lake ontario.  The lawsuit will claim that we dealt with high water over flood stage for many months to save them for a brief period of time.  Why couldnt have they dealt with water a foot higher for those 4 months?  If they were a foot higher for those 4 months it means we could have dropped 4 inches per month during that same time frame.  We'd be 16 inches lower and theyd be lower too right now because it would all be gone.  So that's the legit argument.  Would it have been better to flood montreal with another foot of water for 4 total months to be 16 inches lower on lake ontario today.  That's the battle Cuomo will fight to win in the courts.

Yadda Yadda Yadda.  Do you work for the NYPA? If you dont work at the dam you're stating propaganda facts. I dont drive an hour to work everyday to listen to internet cowboys like you. If you do work for the man you drank the "koolaid"

Edited January 3, 2020 by lost a lure
numbnuts

[iiwhistlerii]

Lmao.  Drive up and go see for yourself cowboy.  The numbers and data come from the army corps of engineers, not the IJC.  30 minutes of actual conversation and face to face explanation and youd probably agree with me as most have.  Usually an explanation presented with facts, including the 4 months where we took it in the ass to save Montreal is all it takes for people to really grasp why we are where we are today.  Reading comprehension isnt everybody's strong suit, I get it.  Not everything is a giant conspiracy.

[lost a lure]

I don't always agree with the people I work for! Get it?

[iiwhistlerii]

This is a good video from a lake ontario resident against 2014.  He does a very good job explaining where we took a beating because of the plan and everyone expects this to be the factors NYSDEC uses to back their lawsuit.  He explains the flow limits and why we shouldnt have been forced to take the brunt of the flooding when Montreal should have shared in the misery.  Basically we were sacrificed as the lesser of 2 evils and they want a limit set so that cant happen again.  With a minimum flow established hands will be tied if it happens again and it wont be left up to choice to save one area over the other. 

 

This is my defense for 2014.  Its overall peramiters havent even had a chance yet.  The plan hasnt had a chance to operate how it was designed with what we've been dealing with.  Sadly 4 of the wettest months of all time put it on the ropes twice now and it really may be a better management plan to stabilize river levels and provide a more natural influx on lake ontario.  In the end it is what it is, the lake will continue on its cycles of highs and lows.  We will have low years under 2014 just as we had before.  Only time will tell I guess.  The debate has been entertaining tho.  Nothing like an uphill battle against a bunch of guys who cant get their boat in the water.  

[lost a lure]

You still don't understand who knows how this actually works and what your being told!

[iiwhistlerii]

4 minutes ago, lost a lure said:

You still don't understand who knows how this actually works and what your being told!

Exactly why I've based my opinion on what I've seen fishing everywhere I've been lucky enough to fish in the last 10 years regularly.  I've experienced the water levels, the increased currents and the changes first hand.  I know it's not bs because I've been the guy waiting at the launch below the dam for the water to rise 10 years ago and I've been the guy watching the water rage through the same area the last 3 years.  While others claim they are holding back water with some conspiracy I'm the one fishing out there that can tell you they most certainly are not.  To each thier own man, get out there and fish.  Lake o was good this am, everywhere has been good.

[lost a lure]

50 years living and working here. Do you understand now?

[iiwhistlerii]

15 minutes ago, lost a lure said:

50 years living and working here. Do you understand now?

Minds made up no matter what.  I get it.  Understand completely.  So let's hear it..  what has actually happened in the last 36 months?  They stopped letting water through the dam but somehow the flow and level down below remained higher than ever before?  Ears are open to 50 years of knowledge.

[lost a lure]

What is actually happening and what your being told is not the same. Can you figure it out now?

[Roughrider IV]

That’s old news that Montreal was spared anymore flooding at the expense of Lake Ontario and up river residents of the Larry. 

[iiwhistlerii]

What is actually happening and what your being told is not the same. Can you figure it out now?

Well what's happening?

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[iiwhistlerii]

That’s old news that Montreal was spared anymore flooding at the expense of Lake Ontario and up river residents of the Larry. 

Exactly. And it's been record outflows trying to play catchup ever since.

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[iiwhistlerii]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=175749266827232&id=100031764788513

 

If you have facebook and can check out this link check it out.  This is above the dam right now.  Water is insanely low already.  Amazing what they can do in just hours when they open it up without enough water coming in to refill it 

[iiwhistlerii]

6 minutes ago, iiwhistlerii said:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=175749266827232&id=100031764788513

 

If you have facebook and can check out this link check it out.  This is above the dam right now.  Water is insanely low already.  Amazing what they can do in just hours when they open it up without enough water coming in to refill it 

That's the lowest anybody can ever remember seeing it up there.  1 day at those flows and it dropped that far.  Maybe I wasnt full of **** afterall.........