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Stocking cuts

GAMBLER

GAMBLER
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pvelyk

pvelyk

Posted
Posted

Call it vindictive or call it fair play closing the Salmon River to protect the salmon spawn has merit.  Realize to Lake fisherman fisherman, every salmon is becoming very important after the additive cuts the last few years.  So just as the trib guys want the numbers of steelies in the creeks to be as high as possible for there fishing opportunities the lake guys want the same for the kings.  SoThey use the mindset that steelhead is managed for trib fishing and they say that the kings are managed for the lakes.  So they have not told lake guys we can’t fish or catch steelhead but they will change and shape the regulations to reduce and limit the steelhead catch on the lake.  The lake guys are not saying trib guys can’t fish for kings just maybe there should not be fishing for them on the salmon river, other streams would be open for business.  The only major trib in NY state where it’s proven natural reproduction occurs is the Salmon River,(yes there are a few other small tribs that do some natural reproduction but it only on ideal years and statically not worth mentioning.) On top of that, when these 20 percent cuts occur it’s not 20 percent for every port that gets stocked.  It’s less than that on the salmon and more at other sites to offset the salmon getting less of the cuts.  Why?  Because the DEC gets concerned if they cut to much from the Salmon river they may come up short of salmon take for hatchery needs.  Sounds like the DEC is saying the Salmon River needs special attention.  So why not protect that brood stock on the salmon river.  If we are going to designate which fish is managed for where then let’s come up with sound plans on both sides, not just one side.

HB2

HB2

Posted
Posted (edited)

Went up to see the hatchery during the run this year . I could not believe the amount of people I saw in the area . 

A lot of money changing hands . 

 

They ain't ever going to close the Salmon river during the run . It's the crown jewel of the fishery . 

 

And it remains to be seen if there will be a noticeable drop in kings the next few years  . And if there  is, can't be great every year .  

 

We had stellar lake fishing this year . And a poor return on the Salmon . 

Maybe that's because Nat reproduction is more widespread that popular belief . 

 

I'll take a wait and see approach . 

 

 

Edited by HB2
shawn393

shawn393

Posted
Posted

Natural reproduction is more common in the Canadian tribs. Those are the fish we were seeing this summer

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Fat Trout

Fat Trout

Posted
Posted (edited)

Regardless of the DEC saying kings are managed for the lake, they will never shut down the SR for the sake of increasing natural reproduction.  That's just the pipe dream of those wanting natural reproduction to make up for the stocking cuts.  You can say "DEC said kings are to be managed for the lake" until you are blue in the face, the reality is that natural reproduction makes it harder for the DEC to manage the lake. We can disagree on cuts or no cuts but from a management perspective natural reproduction is a wildcard.  They can't count on natural reproduction enough to back off and save rearing tank space for other species, but they also know it could blow out one year and a bumper natural reproduction crop could impact baitfish.  Regardless of the economics or the stupidity of the fishing in Pulaski in Sept / Oct, they aren't going to suddenly agree to shut down fishing in a natural reproduction stream in the effort to increase natural reproduction in order to undermine their stocking cuts.  Its possible they may in the future shut down the SR in the event of another drought year as bad as the one a 8 years ago or whenever that was when they struggled to get the minimum egg take.  

Bottom line is they think what they are doing is right for the lake.  I fish east.  I don't see piles of bait as described by others claiming full on conspiracy theories....that's what I know.  

 

 

Edited by Fat Trout
Yankee Troller

Yankee Troller

Posted
Posted
Regardless of the DEC saying kings are managed for the lake, they will never shut down the SR for the sake of increasing natural reproduction.  That's just the pipe dream of those wanting natural reproduction to make up for the stocking cuts.  You can say "DEC said kings are to be managed for the lake" until you are blue in the face, the reality is that natural reproduction makes it harder for the DEC to manage the lake. We can disagree on cuts or no cuts but from a management perspective natural reproduction is a wildcard.  They can't count on natural reproduction enough to back off and save rearing tank space for other species, but they also know it could blow out one year and a bumper natural reproduction crop could impact baitfish.  Regardless of the economics or the stupidity of the fishing in Pulaski in Sept / Oct, they aren't going to suddenly agree to shut down fishing in a natural reproduction stream in the effort to increase natural reproduction in order to undermine their stocking cuts.  Its possible they may in the future shut down the SR in the event of another drought year as bad as the one a 8 years ago or whenever that was when they struggled to get the minimum egg take.  
Bottom line is they think what they are doing is right for the lake.  I fish east.  I don't see piles of bait as described by others claiming full on conspiracy theories....that's what I know.  
 
 
Not one of my reasons mentioned was to increase natural reproduction opportunities. It was to protect the species designated for the Lake guys, and also help out the trib guys come the Trout run.

I LOVE how everyone's concern is for one small town, that turns a blind eye to unethical fishing practices mind you, but no one cares for the hundreds of charter boats on the lake. Nor the multiple small towns that house them along the whole South shore.

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jimski2

jimski2

Posted
Posted

Rainbow Trout winter over in the streams by feeding on salmon eggs. Salmon eggs and reproductions are the main attraction bait for stream fishermen.

HBC

HBC

Posted
Posted
On 12/29/2019 at 8:13 AM, jimski2 said:

Rainbow Trout winter over in the streams by feeding on salmon eggs. Salmon eggs and reproductions are the main attraction bait for stream fishermen.

 

Steelhead don't rut through redds to feast on eggs.  If there are some that float by, they take advantage of that.  They are scavengers and feast on any egg (especially brown roe), nymph, larvae or whatever passes by them.  Has nothing to do with salmon eggs as those are not to be found in the spring when they come in the rivers to spawn.  

GAMBLER

GAMBLER

Posted
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Posted
 
Steelhead don't rut through redds to feast on eggs.  If there are some that float by, they take advantage of that.  They are scavengers and feast on any egg (especially brown roe), nymph, larvae or whatever passes by them.  Has nothing to do with salmon eggs as those are not to be found in the spring when they come in the rivers to spawn.  

They will sit behind kings and gobble them up like crazy as they get dropped.


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Gator

Gator

Posted
Posted

Heck yeah they will. And flesh flies are the go-to for winter steelhead after the salmon spawn and die. During the "spring run" is basically the only time that the salmon don't contribute something to the steelhead fishery.

Lucky13

Lucky13

Posted
Posted

I'm sure that the droppies eat their share of King Fry when they hatch out of the redds and start growing , if the droppies are still in the river.

 

I have never seen a 'bow digging in a salmon redd, but I watched one herd a large hen brown trout once, and take a shot at her abdomen every time she lined up the way the 'bow wanted, and then drop back to eat the eggs that got pushed out from the gut shot.

jimski2

jimski2

Posted
Posted

The rainbow trout shut down feeding in February, at 45 degree water they have spawned and head out to the lake waters.

whaler1

whaler1

Posted
Posted
The rainbow trout shut down feeding in February, at 45 degree water they have spawned and head out to the lake waters.

I’ve caught hundreds of steelhead in water temps lower than 40.


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GAMBLER

GAMBLER

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I’ve caught hundreds of steelhead in water temps lower than 40.


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Proper drift is the key. If it is not a natural drift, they will not hit.


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jimski2

jimski2

Posted
Posted

That is what I said. In the streams till spawning. After 45 degrees they spawn, then leave for the lake till next fall when the streams cool down at night from summer high temperatures.The salmon return for their spawning and the rainbows are with them.


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