How much of your spoon does the fish actually see?

[raider44]

This is a question I have had on my mind for a while. The deeper your spoon is in the water, the less light available- there is no color without light. So at what depth does light begin to fade and quit?

I researched this topic a little bit and looked for answers, but I could only find biology reports that well over my head- I found one chart, but of course everything on the internet cannot always be trusted. The chart shows Blue visible up to 120 feet, yellows and purples visible up to 65 fow, yellow at 45, and reds/oranges only around 20 fow. http://www.aquasonic.com.au/brochures/i ... page20.pdf

several factors decide light penetration into water. first, fresh or salt water. how much phytoplankton is in the water and how much zoo plankton is present. Phytoplankton and zoo plankton are said to absorb over 60% of light.

Any thoughts???? light penetration or spoon colors and light in fow? fish bite, so they have to see/sense something...

[LongLine]

Raider – Before you into hot & heavy discussions & end up losing sleep over that question please remember 2 things:

1 – That’s the spectrum & light visible to humans that those “scientists†are talking about. Fish eyes are similar but quite also a bit different than human eyes. They have more cones. One of those cone sets allows them to see somewhat in the infrared, another in the ultraviolet spectrums. (One of those spectrums is the basis for night vision goggles.) Water reflects part of the UV spectrum but the other part penetrates quite deep. I don't think water stops infrared. Humans can’t see either spectrum. Also, on a side note: Many fishermen put red lures down 100-150 ft where they are supposed to be totally un-seeable & have excellent luck. Colors that we see in visible like often look completely different when viewed under ultraviolet or infrared.

2 - Fish can move the back of their eye which gives them a type of “binocular†vision. This means they can see what we don’t think they can see much farther away than we think they can.

Also remember that fish don't rely soley on sight to find their lunch. They also have an inner ear and Lateral line that allows them to "feel" all sorts of vibration & movement.

They also smell. If you ask how they smell, I'll answer that it depends how long they've been dead. (joke)

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[raider44]

Long Line Yes, that is true and I agree with you- I had no doubt that fish somehow knew that a bait fish/lure was present. I suppose the better question would be does anyone know if there are colors fish see beter than other colors in water.

[Gill-T]

Most charter captains I have asked say the same thing. Oranges/reds up high, greens/and blues down deep. They have the experience so that is what I go by. It just so happens that their pattern follows the what the scientists say by their fancy charts. Wish we could ask the fish. Just to be certain the fish see my bait, I usually have a little glow on anything below 60'. All though I don't belive fish discriminate between similar color schemes or patterns, I do think some colors matter. For instance, ORANGE. I believe the west coast fish plants have evolved to target orange because when they are in streams as juviniles, the cold glacial water is mostly sterile of invertebrate life, so they live off deposited eggs and flesh bits of carcasses. Don't believe me about orange? Go to Alaska or the Canadian rockies during a Coho run and throw something orange on top of the water and watch what happens. Then throw a different colored object out. When I was fishing up and down the coast this pattern always played out. When using a orange bobber, it would get rocked. Our orange fly-line strike indicators would get wacked. No problem with any other colored object.....they just ignored it. Vibrax spinner with orange treble fur was HOT.

[ray koziatek]

raider back in the day we would catch the big fish,strap him to a plank,lay him on his back, put a towell over his face ,and blow air across his gills till he thought he was gonna die . then the big fish would spill his guts as to what was working that year.how deep and what speed .. ah yes those were the days ... then came pita now "airboarding"ant allowed so we just gotta rely on each day to try another spoon ...thats why there are sooo many diff . spoons today were just plain oll gussing.one of these im gonna get one of those big boys take him offshore and strap him to the airboard then ill post it here..

[gotaway]

Ray ..... Thats gotta be the funniest thing I've ever read. I'm gonna have to use the "airboarding" explaination to a couple of ultra-liberal buddies who fish with me a couple times a year..... (hope I can get thru it without giggling)

thanks, Joe

[jekyll]

Ray, you sick freek!

I salute you.

Semper Fi

[raider44]

haha- ray i think i will give that a shot!

[Double D]

This site is GREAT LOL!!!

[Yankee Troller]

Ray....your a goof ball!

[muskybob]

Ray....your a goof ball!

& a mean mean man. He called me about 2 hours ago & all I heard was a SCREAMING DRAG. He got into 'em on Seneca.

[Edd]

Boy!....I just love it when non-Scientist types do diligent research of all the scientific facts available on their particular subject, which by the way we as taxpayers have paid millions in free grants to have compiled, only to walk away while grumbling "I never believe this scientific crap anyways." Well then non-believers, such as I, join my side. The magical word today is phosphorescence. What a beautiful word. It works better at 150 feet than it does at 2 feet, but, it ALWAYS works.

If I'm fishing the column less than 20 feet, my magical word is CONTRAST.

I'm one who also believes that the strike is created by several things, not any single thing. I have never read anywhere that certain fish are angered by any certain colors. With that in mind I'm not so sure that color is important as far as pigment is concerned, more that a particular color is contrasted against a fish's surroundings at whatever depth that may be. Consider a black bodied lure (a great color out here) by the fish that is looking down from about 50 feet. He'll see nothing most likely, but consider the same black lure from a fish looking UP from a depth of 20 feet into clear blue skies with a slight breeze. Now that will draw some attention.

Something I don't think I've seen written about is fright! For instance, if you're fishing a red lure at 15 feet, it will appear grayish if seen from a depth of 20 feet. If the contrast is enough, the fish may want a closer looksee. He's likely to swim very fast before the food gets away. When he gets to 15 feet instantly, the sudden bright red color may spook him into retreat instead of enticing him into a strike.

Just a couple of things I consider when I redesign/re-event off-the-shelf tackle.

Edd

[CBish]

Ray -- That was very good

Color is directly related to light. Figure out how much light is available at the depth of your lure and you will know the color you need. Light is affected by way to many variables to be consistent day in and day out, plus most of us do not have the equipment or the time to measure available at our fishing depth. Besides if we did, conditions would change before we could get all the lines back in. Light penetration is dependent on:

Reflection (each wave changes it)

Angle (every moment the sun is moving across the sky)

Refraction (See reflection)

water clarity

Cloud cover

The list goes on......

What most of us do is take educated guesses. We use our experience in similar conditions to govern our color choices. The boat that catches the most fish is usually the one with the more experiences and/or better choice making.

How do you get more experience? -- fish more and pay attention

How do you make better choices? -- ADAPT, variation, innovation

Down deep phosphorescence is the name of the game and we have been using this for years ever since Paul Betters painted his evil eyes glow and "At the Oak" Joe and Ron Penna put a glow ladder on a black and white pirate. Lhur Jensen was before them even with the glow J's

Now we have many glow tapes and most spoons come with super glow paint. We all use them and most guys will have some glow accent on every lure below 20' (that is experience driving the better choice).

One company takes it to a new level that is MOONSHINE that has a whole line of glows that phosphoresces (?) different colors and many shades of those colors. I don't have them figured out but the concept is solid. (choices)

I do know (experience) that the Carbon 14 works all the time, TNT when overcast and Purple nurple/bish's bruiser when sunny.

Nice thread,

CC