Tying a knot to lures instead of using a snap swivel

[Dad with Twin boys]

I was reading an article today that said that Rapalas should be tied to the leader instead of using a snap swivel as it effects the lures action. What are your thoughts?

 

 

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[Fishnut]

casting a would agree, trolling not so much. 

[wrinklestar]

For trolling I would say no, I am changing presentations out quite frequently at times and they arent catching fish if they arent in the water.  So it is purely a timing thing for me. Plus now a days I need to go find my glasses to tie a knot.

[Frogger]

I would stay with a snap without the swivel. Much better action on stick baits from what see than to tie direct. If you do many changes like me from spoons to stickbaits put a small bearing swivel up 8ft from the snap. This will allow a light leader to the mainline as well if needed.


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[Dad with Twin boys]

Thanks, if I understand this right you are saying to use a Snap without the swivel and tie back to the Mono with a high speed bead swivel like is in this picture.

[justtracytrolling]

This question is a common one I get from my customers.  My answer pertains to warm water fishing as there are countless people with more expertise than I have when it comes to trout and salmon.

 

For casted lures I tie everything.  I basically have 3 reasons for this. Lures don't foul during the cast or when working aggressively and/or twitching nearly as often. Second is action.  When using stickbaits the lure won't suspend the same or rise the same and the way a jerkbaits darts and peels left and right is different with a snap or swivel.  Topwater baits definitely don't work the same most notably walk the dog baits.  Lastly when casting we tend to fish structure that is hard on the last bit of line. Tying every lure insures you cut off a little everytime and keeps the last couple inches of line fresh from wear.  

 

When trolling I run mainline to a barrel to a flourocarbon leader to a snap.  There is no casting, pausing etc so the snap actually adds some action in most cases and definitely with little walleye spoons.  

 

Honestly, if you want to buy the right gear the first time and not waste precious time learning the hard way.  I would think about what fishing you plan to do most and where, then find a captain or guide on that body of water.  Explain your goals to him or her and learn first hand from a professional.  You have an infinite number of choices on every little detail and it's overwhelming and expensive to figure out yourself, not that it can't be done on your own, and this site will definitely help immensely. Most of us end up taking charters occasionally eventually so do yourself a favor and start with one.  

[dry net]

Solid ring bb swivel, leader, duo-lock snap

[Dad with Twin boys]

This question is a common one I get from my customers.  My answer pertains to warm water fishing as there are countless people with more expertise than I have when it comes to trout and salmon.
 
For casted lures I tie everything.  I basically have 3 reasons for this. Lures don't foul during the cast or when working aggressively and/or twitching nearly as often. Second is action.  When using stickbaits the lure won't suspend the same or rise the same and the way a jerkbaits darts and peels left and right is different with a snap or swivel.  Topwater baits definitely don't work the same most notably walk the dog baits.  Lastly when casting we tend to fish structure that is hard on the last bit of line. Tying every lure insures you cut off a little everytime and keeps the last couple inches of line fresh from wear.  
 
When trolling I run mainline to a barrel to a flourocarbon leader to a snap.  There is no casting, pausing etc so the snap actually adds some action in most cases and definitely with little walleye spoons.  
 
Honestly, if you want to buy the right gear the first time and not waste precious time learning the hard way.  I would think about what fishing you plan to do most and where, then find a captain or guide on that body of water.  Explain your goals to him or her and learn first hand from a professional.  You have an infinite number of choices on every little detail and it's overwhelming and expensive to figure out yourself, not that it can't be done on your own, and this site will definitely help immensely. Most of us end up taking charters occasionally eventually so do yourself a favor and start with one.  

Thanks, I will reach out to a charter for Ontario. This site has a tremendous amount of information and very helpful information. This weekend I did meet with a Captain on Lake Champlain to get a lures to start with. March 28th I am going to the Niagara River for a guided trip with my two boys. It is overwhelming getting started and I thank the many people who are helping me.


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[Frogger]

Thanks, if I understand this right you are saying to use a Snap without the swivel and tie back to the Mono with a high speed bead swivel like is in this picture.

Yes, snap (no swivel) tied to a 10-12lb fluorocarbon leader (8-10ft) to a small ball bearing bead swivel tied to your mainline 14lb mono or so. That’s what I use for Finger Lakes. You can adjust leader thickness if your up on Ontario. Gives lures great action especially sticks.


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[Dad with Twin boys]

Yes, snap (no swivel) tied to a 10-12lb fluorocarbon leader (8-10ft) to a small ball bearing bead swivel tied to your mainline 14lb mono or so. That’s what I use for Finger Lakes. You can adjust leader thickness if your up on Ontario. Gives lures great action especially sticks.


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Thank you for making that easy to understand


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[Sk8man]

Frogger has it right as he is another of us "old school dinosaurs" but in a younger body.

A couple additional thoughts to consider:

Snaps and swivels are not all the same, and they give different results as well. Note the snap swivels in your package pic for example. They are basically coast lock type  snap swivels with a very slight "V" at the front of the snap. Other swivels can also have a much more pronounced V at the snap. That particular thing influences the action of the lure (especially stick baits) by tightening or restricting the back and forth "wobble" of the lure. At very fast speeds it may also allow solid body sticks to turn on their side. If you go the snap route a Duo Lock snap with a very rounded snap face is a better choice as it allows the lure to wobble back and forth without as much constriction. A Spro #8 barrel swivel (55 lb test but very small and will go through most rod eyes) can be added as Frogger mentioned and it helps keep line twist to a minimum and sometimes may head off debris from forming on the lure itself.

Another aspect to the tying straight of the leader to the lure is the use of a loop at the knot so that the stickbait (especially) can freely move back and forth and which can give it a different action than tying and cinching up the knot tight. These things mentioned may seem minor byt they can sometimes make a large difference in results. A lot of time jointed stick baits will run fine with swivel snaps but solid body ones seem more affected by both speed and the use of a snap.

While on the subject of swivels it is a good idea to always use SOLID ring swivels NOT the split ring type as the line knot can nest in the separation area and with a large heavy fish potentially cut the line. Hope this helps in your quest

 

P.S. Duo lock type snaps have various manufacturers and some use softer wire than others and are not as strong and can open up easier leading to potential lure loss. The hard wire ones are  best and try to use the smallest but strongest that you can get away with for the lure used.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Sk8man

[Dad with Twin boys]

Thank you for the education and time to wright a well thought out response. In my example I am fishing 5-15lb fish. What brand duo snap would you recommend at the stick or spoon and what ring barrel swivel at the Mono or main line?

[Sk8man]

A number of manufacturers make the duo lok type snaps  and they label the sizes slightly differently (e.g. the numbers) Depending on where you get them I would look to see that the # test is appropriate (if labeled) and that they aren't the flimsier wire.. I have mentioned above the Spro #8 barrel swivel between the main line and fluoro leader. That is what I use for many things as it fits through the eyes of rods OK The #10 is smaller and fine for light mono but the eyelet is very small so it is clumsy at best and impossible at worst to tie knots with heavier lines.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Sk8man

[Frogger]

Thank you for the education and time to wright a well thought out response. In my example I am fishing 5-15lb fish. What brand duo snap would you recommend at the stick or spoon and what ring barrel swivel at the Mono or main line?

He’s good like that. Get in his pocket of knowledge, crazy what you’ll learn from this guy.


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[Dad with Twin boys]

Thank you to everyone for your help

[Sk8man]

Frogger......careful man....I won't be able to get my head out the door to fish

[Frogger]

That’s what I’m hoping, it keeps you safe but will also allow us a chance to win some derby money lol


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[Dad with Twin boys]

I am a VERY long ways fishing in a derby, I really just want to fish with my boys and keep them away from many of the things kids do these days like constant video games.

[glh456]

I've always used ball bearing swivels with spoons & loop knot on stick baits.

 

[HB2]

Many Stick baits come with split rings on the front . Rapala sticks did not . So every stick I have now has a split ring . It is a,pivot point and does not affect the action . So I tie direct . The balance of the lure is critical , especially smaller lures  

 

It is important that you tune your sticks . Some say they are tuned right out of the box . Don't trust that . And after a few fish . You may have to retune . I have had some you can't tune . 

 

I use do do this in my mother's swimming pool or on a dock with no current or wind . It takes time but it's well spent .  

[Legacy]

 

 

On 3/17/2020 at 10:08 AM, Dad with Twin boys said:

Thank you for the education and time to wright a well thought out response. In my example I am fishing 5-15lb fish. What brand duo snap would you recommend at the stick or spoon and what ring barrel swivel at the Mono or main line?

 

 

https://www.fishusa.com/VMC-Duolock-Snaps?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjoH0BRD6ARIsAEWO9Dv20R-8fa4UzanO1QiVfbaUHDb6yvLZf6-BqGoXZxeAgG76i-fVgMsaAoaREALw_wcB

 

These are what im using and Im assuming we are talking trolling... The snaps allow me to change an entire spread of baits (8-12 rods) on the boat rather quickly. The other thing to consider is all of my rods that are running stick baits on them have leaders so if i retied them each and every time by the end of a couple trips i would need to add new leaders to them also.

And FYI you are not losing any action by adding a small snap. #1 size work for me

[Sk8man]

BINGO

[Dad with Twin boys]

BINGO:smile:

Thank you


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[JFK]

When i fish with rapalas i have always tied on direct to lure. The main reason for this is if you use an improved clinch knot you are able to adjust the knot slightly up and down to change the wobble depending on speed. You do not need much of an adjustment but by slightly angling the knot down you will get more wobble and flash of the rapala. Depending on your speed you can adjust to have better performance. Next time you are out try along side of boat, Place the knot straight and watch the action then slightly slide the knot downward and look at it again. The important part of this is making sure you have a good knot tied and it is tight so when you adjust it will stay in place. You will see much more flash of the rapala than a simple back to back motion. 

[Dad with Twin boys]

When i fish with rapalas i have always tied on direct to lure. The main reason for this is if you use an improved clinch knot you are able to adjust the knot slightly up and down to change the wobble depending on speed. You do not need much of an adjustment but by slightly angling the knot down you will get more wobble and flash of the rapala. Depending on your speed you can adjust to have better performance. Next time you are out try along side of boat, Place the knot straight and watch the action then slightly slide the knot downward and look at it again. The important part of this is making sure you have a good knot tied and it is tight so when you adjust it will stay in place. You will see much more flash of the rapala than a simple back to back motion. 

Thank you for that information. I will try that this weekend.


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