Stickbaits & Spoons on Leadcores

[Reel Doc]

So just last month started fishing Ontario after only fishing Cayuga lake prior and I also started using leadcores for the first time.  Chowder told me by using leadcore I officially turned to the Dark Side!!  Been running a 30 foot flouro leader on a 3 color leadcore with a standard Stinger spoon.  If I'm letting line out until the end of the 3rd l color touches the water, how deep is the spoon?  Will it be moving several feet up and down in the column or stay at a steady depth? If I put a shallow diver stick on, will that drop a little deeper?  Does the flouro leader length affect the depth the spoon or stick ultimately runs?

Finally, how does depth of lures on leadcore compare to running behind copper?

I appreciate any input.

 

[Gill-T]

Shoreline brown trolling you probably should be using a 1 color or 1.5 color.  A three color at spring speeds will probably end up around 15' down so if you turn a little, you will dump it on the bottom.  Off shore in a few weeks it is a good length for cohos and then again in June for offshore steelhead.  

[Reel Doc]

17 hours ago, Gill-T said:

Shoreline brown trolling you probably should be using a 1 color or 1.5 color.  A three color at spring speeds will probably end up around 15' down so if you turn a little, you will dump it on the bottom.  Off shore in a few weeks it is a good length for cohos and then again in June for offshore steelhead.  

How much additional drop would you suspect a Standard spoon would have off a 30 foot leader?

[dry net]

I'm not sure what your running for speed but at 2.4 lead doesn't give you a true 5 foot drop per color in my experience. I also run 30 feet of mono then a 5 foot floro leader, the mono stretches on hard hits avoiding break offs. 

[Gill-T]

Typical drop is 4-5’ per color assuming a 2.4 mph speed and letting out 50’ of braid backing after the leadcore. 

[Reel Doc]

Well, I started by running the second/third color junction at the water surface down the chute.  As the sun got a little higher, dropped the end of the third color to the surface of the water.  Speed ranged from 2.1-2.6 in 15-25 fow.  One time in 15 fow it vaught the bottom but otherwise ran ok......and caught some fish.

Drynet, you bring up another ?......does flouro lack stretch to be a problem with breakoffs?

[Gill-T]

If you can figure out the leadcore formula for putting a spoon just off the bottom over the depth you are fishing, you are going to get bit by the larger, bottom-hugging, goby-eating browns. Sounds like you figured it out. 

[Reel Doc]

7 hours ago, Gill-T said:

If you can figure out the leadcore formula for putting a spoon just off the bottom over the depth you are fishing, you are going to get bit by the larger, bottom-hugging, goby-eating browns. Sounds like you figured it out. 

Trying to figure it out.... Had a little beginner's luck on Ontario but that's been helped dramatically by the insight of others on this site, you included.  As always, thanks for your help.  

[justtracytrolling]

Seaguar premier flourocarbon leader is the only leader I know of that has some stretch.... especially with more than 6 foot.  Many of the leadcore makers have a dive cure and blood run has a dive cure for different lures.  

[Reel Doc]

53 minutes ago, justtracytrolling said:

Seaguar premier flourocarbon leader is the only leader I know of that has some stretch.... especially with more than 6 foot.  Many of the leadcore makers have a dive cure and blood run has a dive cure for different lures.  

Do you know if Blood Run core is similar to most others?  Pretty Big difference in dive curve depths with speed difference of 2.0-2.5

[justtracytrolling]

All leadcore is highly speed dependant...that's why it's difficut to use trolling structure tight.  Everytime you turn it sinks on the inside.  Not a problem if aren't trying to be on the bottom to start with.  Also once you start getting near 3 mph or over leadcore doesn't get down much at all.  If you can find an old precision trolling book they do a good job of explaining the basic fundamentals, including line diameter and clip weights.  All of this is much more important with walleye than trout.  

[Reel Doc]

I'm thinking the only time you might want leadcore near bottom is when the Browns are in shallow and as Gill T noted some are plucking Gobys off the bottom.  Otherwise it seems to be just a different presentation with more stealth?  Ive used some copper setups right along and the leadcore certainly handles differently

[chowder]

I'm reasonably sure leadcore undulates considerably more than copper. That being said I'm pretty sure it has a different sonic signature as well.

[Sk8man]

Just to throw in a suspicion in the form of an opinion: Many species of fish have a pronounced lateral line. It's function is thought be be a detector of vibrations and minute electrical signals. The fabric on leadcore is composed of a braided material that probably creates some pretty good friction in the water while trolled and the side to side motion may create the impression of schooling fish or baitfish and serves as an 'attractor" to the following fish. Sound is known to travel much better and further underwater than on land. The copper may do this in a different way as it is a conductor of electrical energy of various types and may have minute chemical reactant properties with water as well and the fishs lateral line may detect it and serve as an attracting factor. If the action of a lure in the water being trolled acts as "vulnerable" or "wounded" following these different line actions swaying back in forth in the water they may grab it. It is also a reason to change up speeds and make turns while trolling as change in the action may be the thing that evokes a strike. The stealth factor may be strong for both the copper and leadcore as this movement through the water occurs a long ways behind the boat. Both the leadcore and copper seems to "snake" up and down and sideways in this manner. The source of my suspicions is the use of data from the Fishhawk TD attached to each setup and experimenting. Both setups will go considerably higher in the column and lower as well than some of the "expected" values at extremes in the speed ranges and it also depends on the size and type of lure run.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Sk8man

[justtracytrolling]

All weighted trolling methods go up and down with speed.  Les and chowder are spot on with each method having it's pros and cons.  An example of this is clip weights...they go up and down with speed change, but if the clip is 75 feet in front of the lure the lure moves very little up and down...put the clip 6' in front of the lure and you have a bait that will go up and down dramatically.   On calm days you may want more action rough days less.  A neutrally buoyant trolling system, jet diver, diving plug, etc isnt affected by speed much at all assuming you aren't crawling/stopped or going so fast the lure washes out.

[Reel Doc]

Thanks for all the input.  Looking forward to continuing to tinker with some cores.....