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Two largest fish in the national lake trout derby are Landlocks

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cinnamon fish

cinnamon fish

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Posted

All 5 fish I caught in 3 days on Seneca had lampreys on them, one of them had 2 lampreys and they were small lampreys which means they are quickly multiplying.  One laker had a massive wound from a large lamprey as well.  It's bad.  DEC needs multiple years of effective treatments before they completely take over the lake.

Roys Boys

Roys Boys

Posted
Posted

More like what happened to the browns... Lakers were there I seen a 11 and a 12lber come in Thursday and Friday

Trouthunter

Trouthunter

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Hey there is nothing wrong with having nice big Landlocks they fight like hell & taste dam good too

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Sk8man

Sk8man

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Posted (edited)

The problem is a compound one as there is also a huge amount of sawbellies in the lake right now and dead ones were frequently spotted on the serface. Perhaps the reason the landlocks are becoming prevalent while lakers and browns are declining has to do with their particular habits and the differences between them. Lakers and browns spend much of their time on or near bottom and are probably more vulnerable to lamprey attacks.When the water warms the landlocks are most prevalent in the upper layer of the water column which may lessen their contact with the lamprey population. Lakers, browns and some rainbows do not seem to be as not as nomadic as the landlocks  which seem to be constantly on the move throughout the water column.

A few years ago Cayuga Lake was in trouble  big time with the lampreys and now the fishing is very good there and healthy populations of numerous species are noted so if the lampricide treatments take place repeatedly and are successful (weather and water conditions are critical when carried out) and they treat the multiple hatching and staging areas of the ammocoetes  conditions could improve....but it will take time. These adult lampreys may live for 15 years or more and they are only vulnerable to treatment when in the larval stage. I suspect that in addition to the major spawning areas such as Catherines or Dresden some of the small  intermittent streams of which there are many along the lake and some that don't totally dry up in the summer may also be adding to the problem and they are not treated to my knowledge.

Edited by Sk8man
  • Like 4
suttontroller94

suttontroller94

Posted
Posted

Thinking out loud here so don't shoot me but maybe Seneca would benefit from 2 or so years of king salmon stocking. The bait population could use some reduction and the lamprey would prey on them and take some pressure off the current fish in the lake until proper lamprecides could be applied. The kings would also did out after 3-4 years with minimal success in spawning so it's not a permanent change. Would also give that lake some awesome sport fishing for a limited time. Could be crazy but then again it could also curb some of the lakes problems and if its an issue where fish literally can't sustain life for more than a few years kings are perfect anyway...

  • Like 3
apb

apb

Posted
Posted
All 5 fish I caught in 3 days on Seneca had lampreys on them, one of them had 2 lampreys and they were small lampreys which means they are quickly multiplying.  One laker had a massive wound from a large lamprey as well.  It's bad.  DEC needs multiple years of effective treatments before they completely take over the lake.

Funding will be a issue due to covid 19


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apb

apb

Posted
Posted
The problem is a compound one as there is also a huge amount of sawbellies in the lake right now and dead ones were frequently spotted on the serface. Perhaps the reason the landlocks are becoming prevalent while lakers and browns are declining has to do with their particular habits and the differences between them. Lakers and browns spend much of their time on or near bottom and are probably more vulnerable to lamprey attacks.When the water warms the landlocks are most prevalent in the upper layer of the water column which may lessen their contact with the lamprey population. Lakers, browns and some rainbows do not seem to be as not as nomadic as the landlocks  which seem to be constantly on the move throughout the water column.
A few years ago Cayuga Lake was in trouble  big time with the lampreys and now the fishing is very good there and healthy populations of numerous species are noted so if the lampricide treatments take place repeatedly and are successful (weather and water conditions are critical when carried out) and they treat the multiple hatching and staging areas of the ammocoetes  conditions could improve....but it will take time. These adult lampreys may live for 15 years or more and they are only vulnerable to treatment when in the larval stage. I suspect that in addition to the major spawning areas such as Catherines or Dresden some of the small  intermittent streams of which there are many along the lake and some that don't totally dry up in the summer may also be adding to the problem and they are not treated to my knowledge.

Spot on.


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cinnamon fish

cinnamon fish

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Sk8man said:

The problem is a compound one as there is also a huge amount of sawbellies in the lake right now and dead ones were frequently spotted on the serface. Perhaps the reason the landlocks are becoming prevalent while lakers and browns are declining has to do with their particular habits and the differences between them. Lakers and browns spend much of their time on or near bottom and are probably more vulnerable to lamprey attacks.When the water warms the landlocks are most prevalent in the upper layer of the water column which may lessen their contact with the lamprey population. Lakers, browns and some rainbows do not seem to be as not as nomadic as the landlocks  which seem to be constantly on the move throughout the water column.

A few years ago Cayuga Lake was in trouble  big time with the lampreys and now the fishing is very good there and healthy populations of numerous species are noted so if the lampricide treatments take place repeatedly and are successful (weather and water conditions are critical when carried out) and they treat the multiple hatching and staging areas of the ammocoetes  conditions could improve....but it will take time. These adult lampreys may live for 15 years or more and they are only vulnerable to treatment when in the larval stage. I suspect that in addition to the major spawning areas such as Catherines or Dresden some of the small  intermittent streams of which there are many along the lake and some that don't totally dry up in the summer may also be adding to the problem and they are not treated to my knowledge.

 

A lot of great info here.  Just wanted to mention the LL I caught Friday had a lamprey on it.  But in general, I would guess you're right they are probably harder for the lamprey to get to vs. the trout.  Totally agree about the overpopulation of alewives... saw many floating over the weekend.

Sk8man

Sk8man

Posted
Posted

That is correct. I was referring to the complete life cycle when I mentioned the 15 years... it actually should have read 14 Plus years as that is what the Cornell University article I was referencing mentioned. It should also be noted that there are actually 19 species of lamprey  and only two of which are thought to be found in NYS:the Sea Lamprey and the Silver Lamprey with the Sea Lamprey being the most common. Thanks for locating that article and  chart Stinger I had seen it but apparently lost track of it.

Nautitroller

Nautitroller

Posted
Posted

Two grinding days of fishing yeilded 7 lakers one 4-12 bow and a last minute 7.84 land locked. Fishing pressure and boats at Sampson were minimal. Seneca will come back. I agree with Bobby n Les, also more death to the lamprey. Question is what can we do as anglers to help the situation? I'd donate to the right organization...20200525_090402.thumb.jpeg.631ee1d6202b3b1facb5d7235e2309c8.jpeg

 

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  • Like 2
shaneo19

shaneo19

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, suttontroller94 said:

Thinking out loud here so don't shoot me but maybe Seneca would benefit from 2 or so years of king salmon stocking. The bait population could use some reduction and the lamprey would prey on them and take some pressure off the current fish in the lake until proper lamprecides could be applied. The kings would also did out after 3-4 years with minimal success in spawning so it's not a permanent change. Would also give that lake some awesome sport fishing for a limited time. Could be crazy but then again it could also curb some of the lakes problems and if its an issue where fish literally can't sustain life for more than a few years kings are perfect anyway...

 

I was going to post the same exact thing.  It is hard to ever pin point an exact problem with a fishery but I think the evidence is pretty clear what is going on here.  Lamprey have/are killing a lot of the predatory fish.   This in turn has caused the alewife population to explode.   This explosion has consequences for many fish species.  I think it is the number one issue with the downward trends in the perch population here as well.   Sawbellies are just thought of as a bait fish but they also are predators and will eat whatever they can including fry from other fish.  Especially at night this time of year I can go out on the lake and shine a light and just see never ending swarms of them.  Reducing the lamprey and alewife populations should be the number one goal in trying to correct what is going on here on Seneca.

 

Stocking King Salmon seems like a crazy and unnatural idea to many.   But it makes all the sense in the world.  Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I believe that was the initial reason why they were stocked in the Great Lakes in the first place.  As a way to control the Sawbellies which are an invasive species.  It would not have to be a permanent or long term change.  Seneca may not be suitable for an actual King Salmon fishery but it has plenty of food for them right now and has plenty of water volume to support at least a small number of them to help control the alewife population.   

  • Like 2
Sk8man

Sk8man

Posted
Posted (edited)

One potential problem with the king stocking is that Seneca is hooked up to Cayuga  and you wouldn't want to upset that fishery by migration there..

Edited by Sk8man
Sk8man

Sk8man

Posted
Posted

Can't be too sure of that because browns for example have traversed the canal for years. I have seen pics of huge browns caught by kids fishing for other species near Waterloo with bobber rigs and worms (10 pounds plus).

shaneo19

shaneo19

Posted
Posted (edited)

It is not impossible.   I have caught browns/rainbows and even a lake trout on the lower side of the Waterloo Locks before.  In the past two weeks there have been 3 lake trout caught from my boat in the Seneca River below the dam at Mudlocks.  Crazy.   King Salmon making it through 3 locks (double lock in Seneca Falls) into Cayuga would certainly be rare though I would think.  

Edited by shaneo19
Frogger

Frogger

Posted
Posted

I’m in agreement on the lamprey issue. I would say we would first have to agree there’s something wrong with population / size of lakers. It appears we’re missing a yrs class or two. I would like to hope it’s on the rebound and that stocking will make up the loss in the next 3-5 yrs with these 4-6 lbrs maturing to the 10+. I had plenty of lampreys in my boat with every other fish scared. I sure hope it’s high on the list to fix. If it’s not the lamprey, then it needs to be found out real soon. Personally I think the bait is a good thing. Rather have it than not. Look at Keuka. You won’t need Kings, plus it would create more of a dilemma with the fisheries and competition. Lakers will chomp every sawbelly they can grab. You just have to have them in the lake.........


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Nautitroller

Nautitroller

Posted
Posted

I think that a balance is the only solution for comeback on Seneca.
Reduce pollution, including salinity.
Reduce the number of lamprey.
Establish a balance that is self sustainable.

The one big difference between Cayuga and Seneca is the sturgeon. I believe that the sturgeon eat the lamprey. Maybe I'm wrong but the guys on the west coast love to use them as bait. The key being letting nature balance itself.
It's a cyclical lake, it's getting better time will tell..


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