DEC Announces Actions to Protect Salmon River Fish Populations

[Gill-T]

5 hours ago, Lucky13 said:

The only guiding I ever did on the SR or anywhere else has been gratis, before the requirement for a license, and before DSR.  And last year was the only year I purchased a season pass, and that didn't work out as economical due to an injury to my hand that precluded salmon fishing, and the loss of the droppie season to Cuomo closure syndrome. 

let me get this straight......neither you or King Davy are guides??  So who are you representing in the reported so called “secret” meetings with fisheries?  If you claim to be representing the common folk river angler in your quest for Atlantic Salmon for-all, who elected you guys to the position?

[whaler1]

Popcorn please


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[Frogger]

Rutro


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[Silver Fox]

I’m not familiar with another place in NY where on NYS waters you are unable to fish due to a private citizen owning the land under it. I realize you can’t anchor but at the DSR stretch you can’t even wet a line with a bobber while floating.


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Their is a home owner of Sandy that we’ll call “Larry”, that calls the cops every time someone floats through with lures out. He is well loved in those parts.....


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[Frogger]

Crazy......


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[King Davy]

Gill T your narrative is getting old. We were asked to participate on a panel for both NYS, and also the Bi National panel by the Bureau Chief of Fisheries to represent Tributary initiatives. Charlie and I have 40 years of experience on this fishery both open waters and tribs including public involvement and service. I guess Hurst and LaPan feel we have valuable insight in that arena to offer. But why don’t you ask them why they asked our involvement.

 

You seem intimidated by that since you are always taking shots. I know you don’t know me and I doubt you know Charlie. You’ve never had a face to face conversation with me. I couldn’t pick you out of a crowd of two. You seem to fear the aspect of the states Atlantic Salmon program.

 

Truly sorry for your angst. Do your best to hang in there.

 

 

 

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[Gill-T]

9 hours ago, King Davy said:

Gill T your narrative is getting old. We were asked to participate on a panel for both NYS, and also the Bi National panel by the Bureau Chief of Fisheries to represent Tributary initiatives. Charlie and I have 40 years of experience on this fishery both open waters and tribs including public involvement and service. I guess Hurst and LaPan feel we have valuable insight in that arena to offer. But why don’t you ask them why they asked our involvement.

 

You seem intimidated by that since you are always taking shots. I know you don’t know me and I doubt you know Charlie. You’ve never had a face to face conversation with me. I couldn’t pick you out of a crowd of two. You seem to fear the aspect of the states Atlantic Salmon program.

 

Truly sorry for your angst. Do your best to hang in there.

 

 

 

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no angst now!  I knew if I kicked the tires long enough we would learn Lucky 13’s name. My work is done here. 

[GAMBLER]

9 hours ago, King Davy said:

Gill T your narrative is getting old. We were asked to participate on a panel for both NYS, and also the Bi National panel by the Bureau Chief of Fisheries to represent Tributary initiatives. Charlie and I have 40 years of experience on this fishery both open waters and tribs including public involvement and service. I guess Hurst and LaPan feel we have valuable insight in that arena to offer. But why don’t you ask them why they asked our involvement.

 

You seem intimidated by that since you are always taking shots. I know you don’t know me and I doubt you know Charlie. You’ve never had a face to face conversation with me. I couldn’t pick you out of a crowd of two. You seem to fear the aspect of the states Atlantic Salmon program.

 

Truly sorry for your angst. Do your best to hang in there.

 

 

 

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Isn't the board supposed to be stakeholders?  By stakeholders shouldn't it mean guides, captains and business owners directly effected by the changes and issues brought to the board?  If not, and two guys are on the board that the issues do not directly effect financially (ie. a business), that is wrong and should be changed.  

[Traveling Circus]

I think anyone using the resource is a stakeholder. Private fishermen, captains, business owners........ all have an interest in the management of the fishery. Collectively, private fishermen has got to be the largest group of stakeholders. Being a private fisherman, I'm happy to have "private fisherman" interests represented by other private fishermen. Every year, we go through this creek / lake thing. It's almost as bad as national politics. Almost...............

[Yankee Troller]

I'm still blown away that one river get so much attention for 2mos of the season. The bigger picture is all the small towns around Lake Ontario (US & Canada) who benefit from Salmon 6mos of the year. Since the DEC put fourth more regulations on the lake for Trout, and mentioned that Salmon are managed for the lake, we need to protect our Salmon as Lake anglers all around Lake Ontario. Canada closes their tribs. I'm not asking for a full closure. I'm asking for a closure until after egg take every year. The Salmon River is where a 90% of the stocked Salmon in Lake Ontario come from. Our best Salmon genes never make it to the hatchery. Some of our best Trout get ripped out by the slobs that Salmon season attracts. Low water years, like we have now, and the stocking cuts are not going to be good for the lake in the future. I've been fishing offshore for a month now. I do it every fall. Next years class isn't looking good. Our 3yr olds this year were the first 20% cut, and we saw how the mature fishery was this August/September. Next years matures are the 40% cut, and we're not seeing many offshore where they should be. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Yankee Troller

[Sk8man]

I think Rick has made some really good points here.

[King Davy]

Yes a stakeholder is anyone who uses the resource. And the overwhelming majority of people who use the lake and tributaries are recreational anglers. Do you really only want to be represented by those who make money off the resource when it comes to offering input in how the program is managed?

 

Gill I’m sure Lucky has no problem with you knowing his name. Your work is done? Why didn’t you just ask him. How is that work? Lucky I think Gill wants to have you over for beers and BBQ

 

Rick in our meeting with DEC Tuesday night they did disclose their plan B to recover salmon eggs if necessary. Several highly respected Charter Boat Capt’s were on the call.

 

I was on the salmon river yesterday and while we can’t visit the hatchery I have friends who work there. According to my discussion there are hundreds of both Kings and cohos in the ladder. While the LFZ is closed you can still walk in and check it out. I did and saw several hundred salmon in there fully protected by the closure.

 

The biggest issue right now is low water. Beaver Dam brook is a trickle so while several hundred fish have reached the hatchery the brook isn’t holding fish as usual since its to low. Which is probably why the fish are hanging in the LFZ.

 

Anglers who wish to fish the river have every right to do so including fishing for salmon. Regardless of new regs nobody ever said since steelhead are managed for the tribs lake fishermen shouldn’t fish or catch them or keep them with in the limits.

 

At some point after over 50 years of success in keeping this entire fishery Viable .... for all angler interest you folks need to trust our fishery managers and the highly capable biologists and technicians who work in DEC. They’ve certainly earned that trust and respect.

 

 

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[TyeeTanic]

2 hours ago, Yankee Troller said:

I'm still blown away that one river get so much attention for 2mos of the season. The bigger picture is all the small towns around Lake Ontario (US & Canada) who benefit from Salmon 6mos of the year. Since the DEC put fourth more regulations on the lake for Trout, and mentioned that Salmon are managed for the lake, we need to protect our Salmon as Lake anglers all around Lake Ontario. Canada closes their tribs. I'm not asking for a full closure. I'm asking for a closure until after egg take every year. The Salmon River is where a 90% of the stocked Salmon in Lake Ontario come from. Our best Salmon genes never make it to the hatchery. Some of our best Trout get ripped out by the slobs that Salmon season attracts. Low water years, like we have now, and the stocking cuts are not going to be good for the lake in the future. I've been fishing offshore for a month now. I do it every fall. Next years class isn't looking good. Our 3yr olds this year were the first 20% cut, and we saw how the mature fishery was this August/September. Next years matures are the 40% cut, and we're not seeing many offshore where they should be. 

Yankee, what do you mean Canada closes their tribs? I can go fishing on Bronte River right now if I want to.  Ganaraska is only closed at Port Hope because the Town has put bi-laws in place due to COVID.  Actually all they closed is access to the river from land ... I don't think they have jurisdiction to the river ... that is governed by the Province I believe.

 

One thing I'd like to point out ... do you think it's okay for boaters to be fishing staging salmon?  They are all congregated at the mouth of the rivers ... so how is that any more ethical than someone standing on the pier chucking spoons?

[Silver Fox]

Salmon must be managed for the lake. If salmon catches decrease, the total fishing experience on the lake gets kicked in the nuts. Rainbows April through August are not even close to numbers we used to see. Brown fishing is temperature dependent and lake trout is just not much of an attraction. If and when Salmon fishing goes to the crapper, it will be a ghost town out there.
I’m with Rick, close it down.


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[Yankee Troller]

1 minute ago, TyeeTanic said:

Yankee, what do you mean Canada closes their tribs? I can go fishing on Bronte River right now if I want to.  Ganaraska is only closed at Port Hope because the Town has put bi-laws in place due to COVID.  Actually all they closed is access to the river from land ... I don't think they have jurisdiction to the river ... that is governed by the Province I believe.

 

One thing I'd like to point out ... do you think it's okay for boaters to be fishing staging salmon?  They are all congregated at the mouth of the rivers ... so how is that any more ethical than someone standing on the pier chucking spoons?

 

I've never fished Canadian rivers, but I am told they get closed to fishing at some point. Maybe it's sections of the river that get closed to protect the fish in it. As far as fishing stagers in the lake goes the fish is still in the lake and has to actually "bite" your presentation. Fishing for them in a ditch with very little flow is not ethical given a large percentage are taken illegally.

 

47 minutes ago, King Davy said:

Yes a stakeholder is anyone who uses the resource. And the overwhelming majority of people who use the lake and tributaries are recreational anglers. Do you really only want to be represented by those who make money off the resource when it comes to offering input in how the program is managed?

 

Gill I’m sure Lucky has no problem with you knowing his name. Your work is done? Why didn’t you just ask him. How is that work? Lucky I think Gill wants to have you over for beers and BBQ

 

Rick in our meeting with DEC Tuesday night they did disclose their plan B to recover salmon eggs if necessary. Several highly respected Charter Boat Capt’s were on the call.

 

I was on the salmon river yesterday and while we can’t visit the hatchery I have friends who work there. According to my discussion there are hundreds of both Kings and cohos in the ladder. While the LFZ is closed you can still walk in and check it out. I did and saw several hundred salmon in there fully protected by the closure.

 

The biggest issue right now is low water. Beaver Dam brook is a trickle so while several hundred fish have reached the hatchery the brook isn’t holding fish as usual since its to low. Which is probably why the fish are hanging in the LFZ.

 

Anglers who wish to fish the river have every right to do so including fishing for salmon. Regardless of new regs nobody ever said since steelhead are managed for the tribs lake fishermen shouldn’t fish or catch them or keep them with in the limits.

 

I disagree Dave. There are more stakeholders on the entire lake than in the Salmon River. I had to pull off the Steelhead this weekend becasue I couldn't box anymore and go look for Salmon. The stupid regulation you and your buddies put on the lake anglers is ridiculous. First it went from 18" to 21". Now we can't keep 3 Steelhead in the Lake. What's next? Oh, and let me mention the lake guys have gotten nothing in return. We just keep getting things rammed down our throats. It's time we get something.

[Frogger]

Salmon must be managed for the lake. If salmon catches decrease, the total fishing experience on the lake gets kicked in the nuts. Rainbows April through August are not even close to numbers we used to see. Brown fishing is temperature dependent and lake trout is just not much of an attraction. If and when Salmon fishing goes to the crapper, it will be a ghost town out there.
I’m with Rick, close it down.


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Hence the good ole 90’s when ports became empty and only a few captains survived......


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[HB2]

So " F " Pulaski and the entire region around it and the people who have invested a whole lot into it ? 

 

I see a whole lot  Me , Me ,Me on here . 

 

We have some of the best fishing opportunities in the world  for all styles of angling in this state and some complain about it . Kudos to the DEC for consistently providing it for us . 

 

Met Dave and his wife once .  They both seem  like nice   level  headed folks  with experience who care  about the fishery as a whole . And realize all facets are important going forward . 

 

Sounds like  we might have a few leaner king years for a while because of the bait situation . Can't wait to see how that goes over . 

 

[Yankee Troller]

18 minutes ago, HB2 said:

So " F " Pulaski and the entire region around it and the people who have invested a whole lot into it ? 

 

I see a whole lot  Me , Me ,Me on here . 

 

We have some of the best fishing opportunities in the world  for all styles of angling in this state and some complain about it . Kudos to the DEC for consistently providing it for us . 

 

Met Dave and his wife once .  They both seem  like nice   level  headed folks  with experience who care  about the fishery as a whole . And realize all facets are important going forward . 

 

Sounds like  we might have a few leaner king years for a while because of the bait situation . Can't wait to see how that goes over . 

 

 

No, what I'm saying is the rest of the lake and the small towns that touch every inch of it get the big FU all so one town doesn't suffer. So screw the charter boats, tackle shops, hotel/motel, restaurants, and marinas all around the lake. Lets not forget the trickle down effect outside of the business mentioned.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Yankee Troller

[GAMBLER]

41 minutes ago, HB2 said:

So " F " Pulaski and the entire region around it and the people who have invested a whole lot into it ? 

 

I see a whole lot  Me , Me ,Me on here . 

 

We have some of the best fishing opportunities in the world  for all styles of angling in this state and some complain about it . Kudos to the DEC for consistently providing it for us . 

 

Met Dave and his wife once .  They both seem  like nice   level  headed folks  with experience who care  about the fishery as a whole . And realize all facets are important going forward . 

 

Sounds like  we might have a few leaner king years for a while because of the bait situation . Can't wait to see how that goes over . 

 

We are all screwed if the DEC does not get eggs and the kings get ripped out with the low water.  We will have less stocking, less natural reproduction and EVERYONE will suffer as a result.  Who knows how much natural reproduction is going to effected with the super low water.  If kings cant get into the most fertile waters to spawn, natural reproduction will suffer that way too.  Protecting your investment when it is super vulnerable is a smart way of doing business.  Shutting down the river until the egg take is complete is a better option than letting it go and suffering for years to come.  With high natural reproduction from the Salmon River, this could have huge impacts on the future of the entire lake fishery (NY and Canadian waters).  I don't see it as a ME, ME, ME attitude, I see it as a concern for the fishery.  

[shawn393]

I agree with yankee. Shut it down down until after egg take. There are plenty of other rivers and streams to fish in the meantime 

[Gill-T]

Close it down October 15th to November 15th. The hatchery has reported problems with the eggs staying viable In the past if conditions are too warm. 

[King Davy]

Rick anybody who fishes our tribs is a stakeholder which includes the 1000’s of out of state anglers who buys a license to fish NY , stay in the lodges and motels/hotels. Eat in the restaurants.

 

Last year in September to Columbus Day the Salmon river alone had over 950k angler hours, twice more than the entire lake season and yes 2019 lake season suffered from high water but the avg angler hours on the lake the last several years has been between 3 and 400k. The Salmon river alone outpaces the lake effort.

 

When you add in all the rest of the entire trib landscape the number can be 4x the lake effort.

 

Don’t believe me call Cortland DEC and talk to Scott. I’m surprised as great a salmon angler as you are ( and I’m truly not patronizing you) you need to kill 3 steelhead per man.

 

There are more total salmon in the lake than back in the 80’s and 90’s when we didn’t have the habitat that today produces millions of wild salmon hatches.

 

You just put a report out on a tournament that you won where you were targeting two year old kings to win. Can’t eat your cake... and have it too. Once you kill that two year old..... he’ll never return as a three year old stager.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[HB2]

I'm not worried . 

 

I'm quite sure there will be kings to catch . 

 

And besides , there are always the fat chicks. 

[GAMBLER]

5 minutes ago, HB2 said:

I'm not worried . 

 

I'm quite sure there will be kings to catch . 

 

And besides , there are always the fat chicks. 

The fishery can't survive on lake trout.  IF you think so, talk to guys from Lake Huron.  I have a couple customers that buy lake trout gear from there and it used to be a booming fishery and now its a ghost town.  

[Kingme2Go]

9 hours ago, King Davy said:

Rick anybody who fishes our tribs is a stakeholder which includes the 1000’s of out of state anglers who buys a license to fish NY , stay in the lodges and motels/hotels. Eat in the restaurants.

 

Last year in September to Columbus Day the Salmon river alone had over 950k angler hours, twice more than the entire lake season and yes 2019 lake season suffered from high water but the avg angler hours on the lake the last several years has been between 3 and 400k. The Salmon river alone outpaces the lake effort.

 

When you add in all the rest of the entire trib landscape the number can be 4x the lake effort.

 

Don’t believe me call Cortland DEC and talk to Scott. I’m surprised as great a salmon angler as you are ( and I’m truly not patronizing you) you need to kill 3 steelhead per man.

 

There are more total salmon in the lake than back in the 80’s and 90’s when we didn’t have the habitat that today produces millions of wild salmon hatches.

 

You just put a report out on a tournament that you won where you were targeting two year old kings to win. Can’t eat your cake... and have it too. Once you kill that two year old..... he’ll never return as a three year old stager.

 

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..

According to DEC reports,  effort in Tribs and Lake are about equal..

https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/2019lakeontannualrep.pdf

https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/fish_marine_pdf/lorpt16.pdf

 

Lake Angler Hours last ten years Apr-Sep:

905,357   898,339   848,905   937,822   980,409   879,681  787,588   709,638,   922,527   820,695

 

All NY Lake Ontario Tributary Angler Hours including the Salmon River (Sep-May)

2005-6          2006-7      2011-12        2015-16   

1,001,990     913,646     1,582,428     989,437

 

In 2018-2019, Salmon River Sept-May:  840,258 angler hours, 2nd highest ever.

 

Seems eveyone has an equal stake.