Seneca Holy eels on Seneca

[Roys Boys]

Just ended a 4 hour trip this morning with 12 eels either stuck to the boat or down rigger balls all over 15 inches most I’ve seen this year! Got 8 in the boat and lost a couple off the prop

[Reel Doc]

Wow.  Do you think it's the vibration that attracts them?  Not too smart if they hang on long enough to get chopped.  Sure hope treatment next Spring knocks the numbers down

[bulletbob]

I know this response will draw anger from some, but I feel its the truth.. The NYSDEC, knows all about the lamprey problem in Seneca and Cayuga. They let it go until its totally out of control, and stocks are decimated before they do anything. Happens every few years to one lake or the other. Cayuga is doing well now, but several years back it was the same damn thing.. Lampreys out of control, and poor fishing..

 

The DEC seems to me to be laser focused on the Great Lakes Salmonids and not much else... Warm water fisheries and many  smaller trout venues, go without, or get a small sickly  bone once a year, with a few 7 inch trout thrown in in April, and done... Other states fishery programs do in  incredible work with minimal water resources compared to what we have in NY...

[Frogger]

I know this response will draw anger from some, but I feel its the truth.. The NYSDEC, knows all about the lamprey problem in Seneca and Cayuga. They let it go until its totally out of control, and stocks are decimated before they do anything. Happens every few years to one lake or the other. Cayuga is doing well now, but several years back it was the same damn thing.. Lampreys out of control, and poor fishing..
 
The DEC seems to me to be laser focused on the Great Lakes Salmonids and not much else... Warm water fisheries and many  smaller trout venues, go without, or get a small sickly  bone once a year, with a few 7 inch trout thrown in in April, and done... Other states fishery programs do in  incredible work with minimal water resources compared to what we have in NY...

I know the frustration but in my opinion and from what I know, a couple factors have influenced the lampreys being out of control. For one weather, they have had some bad luck the last few treatments/years due to flooding and such. I’m really hoping that things are aligned for this spring to put a hurtin on them.


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[Sk8man]

There have been several problems with flooding and them getting over barriers and the treatment is complicated. Weather conditions have to be pretty exact to avoid collateral fish/other organisms kills etc. In years past the environmentalists presented some objections to treatment for Cayuga delaying things significantly.

[dry net]

1 hour ago, bulletbob said:

I know this response will draw anger from some, but I feel its the truth.. The NYSDEC, knows all about the lamprey problem in Seneca and Cayuga. They let it go until its totally out of control, and stocks are decimated before they do anything. Happens every few years to one lake or the other. Cayuga is doing well now, but several years back it was the same damn thing.. Lampreys out of control, and poor fishing..

 

The DEC seems to me to be laser focused on the Great Lakes Salmonids and not much else... Warm water fisheries and many  smaller trout venues, go without, or get a small sickly  bone once a year, with a few 7 inch trout thrown in in April, and done... Other states fishery programs do in  incredible work with minimal water resources compared to what we have in NY...

You guys don't know how good you have it. Come to NH and fish awhile, there's a reason we travel six hours to fish NY. Good luck,    Matt

[Roys Boys]

We need more funding for the lakes and a powder we could put in the lake would be ideal.. wait for a south wind dump it going across the lake and let the wind and current do the rest

[Reel Doc]

I read the history of lampreys and how they destroyed the lake trout fishery on the Great Lakes last century.  How did multiple states and Canada get things righted around all those years ago and how are the Great lakes now?  It seems few on this site comment on lamprey or marks on fish caught in Ontario.  This Spring was my first chasing Browns there and I only saw one lamprey mark.... On a smallmouth, not a trout.

Another ?....any other Finger Lakes have lamprey problems? 

[Fat Trout]

1 hour ago, Reel Doc said:

I read the history of lampreys and how they destroyed the lake trout fishery on the Great Lakes last century.  How did multiple states and Canada get things righted around all those years ago and how are the Great lakes now?  It seems few on this site comment on lamprey or marks on fish caught in Ontario.  This Spring was my first chasing Browns there and I only saw one lamprey mark.... On a smallmouth, not a trout.

Another ?....any other Finger Lakes have lamprey problems? 

this year was an abbreviated season for me on Lake O but for the weeks and months I did fish I didnt see a single (noticable) mark on the fish I caught (weekend warrior but still a decent amount of time in).  I saw some  healed over ones....well healed, not recent.  Full disclosure I don't target lakers, but lakers I saw looked clean.   Last year I saw some fresh marks for sure and the year before was quite a few, a LOT actually 2 years ago on the browns in spring, it was nasty actually (Mexico).   Having fished lake O for years, it has always been up and down but I was pretty encouraged with what I saw this year.   As was said earlier, treatment is dependent on the right conditions when they treat.  I use to walk the lower part of the little salmon river in spring and remember one year where the dead small lampreys were piled up at the tail of a slower larger pool....good year I guess.   i also read how there was a large walleye die off in the sandy's  (east lake O) perhaps 8 or so years ago which some attributed to the treatment, again as mentioned its a balance.  

Edited October 5, 2020 by Fat Trout

[Reel Doc]

Catch 22 if the lampricide kills some of the game fish they are trying to protect.   

[Sk8man]

They use very strict protocols to administer the lampricide to minimize collateral damage and the treatments have to be carried out when not windy, waterflow is right etc.The treatment doesn't kill the adult or juvenile lampreys it only affects the larval stage in the mud and sediment.

[Lucky13]

13 hours ago, Roys Boys said:

We need more funding for the lakes and a powder we could put in the lake would be ideal.. wait for a south wind dump it going across the lake and let the wind and current do the rest

When you get your magic powder, do you think you could grab me one of those geese that lays the golden eggs, or one of the spinning wheels that turns straw into gold?

[BrookTrout]

I agree with sk8man, the application process is very complex and involves weeks of prep and constant monitoring during treatment. Lampricide concentrations must stay within very specific range within the stream for hours during treatment.  If concentrations are too low it is not effective, if they are too high can harm non target species such as amphibians and fish.  If water levels in stream are too high/low during treatment window (they have to have permit for treatment that dictates treatment window so DEC cannot just wait for the right time) or unstable cannot be done safely and once a treatment is missed the ammocoetes (lamprey larvae) will get into the lake and cannot be targeted and must finish their parasitic adult stage 1-2 yrs before we are rid of that yar class. In Seneca Lake Catherine creek is the major nursery and if treatment is missed on this stream we will have a couple years of bad predation.  On bigger systems (champlain, great lakes) missing one trib won't cause as much damage.  Either way it sucks but it is the imperfect nature of the treatment process.  Luckily we have a chemical that can be used effectively and safely to target lampreys or else we would have almost no salmonid fishery in Seneca from what I understand.

[Frogger]

I agree with sk8man, the application process is very complex and involves weeks of prep and constant monitoring during treatment. Lampricide concentrations must stay within very specific range within the stream for hours during treatment.  If concentrations are too low it is not effective, if they are too high can harm non target species such as amphibians and fish.  If water levels in stream are too high/low during treatment window (they have to have permit for treatment that dictates treatment window so DEC cannot just wait for the right time) or unstable cannot be done safely and once a treatment is missed the ammocoetes (lamprey larvae) will get into the lake and cannot be targeted and must finish their parasitic adult stage 1-2 yrs before we are rid of that yar class. In Seneca Lake Catherine creek is the major nursery and if treatment is missed on this stream we will have a couple years of bad predation.  On bigger systems (champlain, great lakes) missing one trib won't cause as much damage.  Either way it sucks but it is the imperfect nature of the treatment process.  Luckily we have a chemical that can be used effectively and safely to target lampreys or else we would have almost no salmonid fishery in Seneca from what I understand.

Yes, Dresden aka Keuka Outlet is the mothership of the alien [emoji89] monsters.....


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[shaneo19]

I guess it might better to see big lampreys then smaller ones.   Not sure what there lifespan is in the lake but hopefully these bigger ones are getting towards the end of life.  Seeing a whole bunch of smaller ones would be more concerning. 

[Sk8man]

Can be15 years plus for adults from what I have read.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Sk8man

[ifishy]

36 minutes ago, Sk8man said:

Can be15 years plus for adults from what I have read.

 

i think its 15months

once they metamorphis they do not live very long as the parasite we know before they go back to spawning.  

treatments should kill multiple year classes as the larva stay in the streams for years.  unfortunatly high water can mean spawning in areas that dont or cant get treated and this can lead to large year classes.  I believe DEC trys to treat every couple years (i might be wrong) which keeps the population down but when weather conspires to stop a treatment you can get a larger hatchout the normal.

 

a few years back i remember reading where they were testing a second chemical that when added made the lampricide more effective and as a result they could use a much lower concentration to treat and greatly reduce the risk of collateral.  there was also a  study showing that streams with larva attracted more spawning adults.  they took the phermones of the larva and seeded a creek with them and where previously no spawning historically occured they were getting large numbers of returning adults.   the goal was you could selectivly release these phermones in streams that were ideal for lampricide than treat that stream the following spring.  you would be able to target a larger proportion of the population with a smaller number of treatments.  To date i dont believe DEC has updated methods or stratagys in many years would be nice to see some of that research put to use.   

[Sk8man]

You are correct. I didn't word it very well I was referring to the entire life cycle and  where it occurs entirely in fresh water and it is 3-10 years in duration. I have read in the past that in the oceans they have a longer life span (e.g. 4- 15 years where they live and then breed in freshwater but I have also seen 4 yrs in the ocean in another article so I'm not sure) http://www.glfc.org/sea-lamprey-lifecycle.php

There are 19 - 43 different types too (depending on source) and some are non-parasitic.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Sk8man

[ifishy]

I want to say the ones in we have issues with are even endangered or at least threatened in there native range. Lamprey was a highly sought food fish for century's I have no idea if it still is. If there is demand than a couple key commercial license to let traps be set could help to manage numbers as well

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[Matt ching]

What about a eel weir or something similar? Doesn’t the Cayuga inlet have something where they can collect adult lamprey from the ladder?


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[Matt ching]

Maybe I’ll just build a few on smaller streams around Seneca who’s in[emoji23]


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[Fat Trout]

51 minutes ago, ifishy said:

I want to say the ones in we have issues with are even endangered or at least threatened in there native range. Lamprey was a highly sought food fish for century's I have no idea if it still is. If there is demand than a couple key commercial license to let traps be set could help to manage numbers as well

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unrelated but when searching for herring as bait I found that out west Lamprey is a bait used for ....I think sturgeon.  I have no idea where/how they get them. 

[Hobo]

In the Delaware river we used to use the small ones for walleye. It was like candy to them.


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[Lucky13]

20 hours ago, Matt ching said:

Maybe I’ll just build a few on smaller streams around Seneca who’s in


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Regardless of your motivation, you'll need to get an Article 15 permit for every stream you intend to disturb, and you will also need landowner or municipal permission for anything you don't have title to, both for the permits, and to avoid possible trespass charges. 

[Frogger]

And that’s that.....,,,


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