Wire for Reels

[stillfishing]

Looking to put new wire on my reels and trying to find what is the best wire to put on them I'm not sure what I have on them now but it curls up a lot at the ends. We mainly fish for king salmon rainbow trout and walleye so looking for an all around good wire. Any help would be fantastic thanks

 

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[John E Powell]

All wires will curl near the end even with a Twili tip unless you run a short heavy leader that gets the splice near or onto the reel. If you store your rods with wire in the guides it’s going to curl.

 

7 strand is more popular than 19 strand for a couple reasons (it’s cheaper and 19 strand was failure prone when it was first introduced), but I think the 19 strand that is being sold today has improved to the point that it is better than 7, here’s why...

 

Rod guides:

19 strand is clearly easier on rod guides and a Twili tip than 7 strand.

 

Tangle and kink resistance:

19 strand is far more kink resistant than 7 strand. In fact you can tie a terminal knot in 19 strand wire.

 

Pre-failure warning:

When 19 strand is damaged a few of the fine strands will break and form a tiny “rats nest” at the point of its pending failure that is easy to see when you’re retrieving and deploying the wire. This warning allows you to cut it back and re-terminate the wire.

7 strand wire doesn’t really give you any warning, so when it breaks you lose your diver, attractor, lure/fly/meat rig, and swivels at a cost of $25-50.

 

Cost: 19 strand has a higher initial cost, it’s about $10 more per spool than 7 strand. However, when you find and repair your first 19 strand pre-failure warning you just saved far more than it’s added cost in all the gear you haven’t lost.

 

In my opinion, the Torpedo brand 19 strand wire is the best wire for Great Lakes diver fishing.

[stillfishing]

Wow thanks John really appreciate the breakdown.

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[rolmops]

3 hours ago, John E Powell said:

All wires will curl near the end even with a Twili tip unless you run a short heavy leader that gets the splice near or onto the reel. If you store your rods with wire in the guides it’s going to curl.

 

7 strand is more popular than 19 strand for a couple reasons (it’s cheaper and 19 strand was failure prone when it was first introduced), but I think the 19 strand that is being sold today has improved to the point that it is better than 7, here’s why...

 

Rod guides:

19 strand is clearly easier on rod guides and a Twili tip than 7 strand.

 

Tangle and kink resistance:

19 strand is far more kink resistant than 7 strand. In fact you can tie a terminal knot in 19 strand wire.

 

Pre-failure warning:

When 19 strand is damaged a few of the fine strands will break and form a tiny “rats nest” at the point of its pending failure that is easy to see when you’re retrieving and deploying the wire. This warning allows you to cut it back and re-terminate the wire.

7 strand wire doesn’t really give you any warning, so when it breaks you lose your diver, attractor, lure/fly/meat rig, and swivels at a cost of $25-50.

 

Cost: 19 strand has a higher initial cost, it’s about $10 more per spool than 7 strand. However, when you find and repair your first 19 strand pre-failure warning you just saved far more than it’s added cost in all the gear you haven’t lost.

 

In my opinion, the Torpedo brand 19 strand wire is the best wire for Great Lakes diver fishing.

x2

[Gill-T]

If all you really are worried about is pigtails then just splice in some 80lb braid using an improved Albright Knot connection to wire so all the wire is reeled onto the reel during storage. 

[Sk8man]

John made some great points

[UNREEL]

14 hours ago, Gill-T said:

If all you really are worried about is pigtails then just splice in some 80lb braid using an improved Albright Knot connection to wire so all the wire is reeled onto the reel during storage. 

That definitely solves the curly Q issues on the wire. If 80lb braid is not available, 40 or 50 lb mono works also. Even gives you a little shock absorber as a bonus.  

[Yankee Troller]

John made some great points, but 19 strands biggest downside is its dive curve. The reason you go to wire (over mono like we started using when divers came out) is to go deeper. I see you don't like the pigtail from your current wire, so it sounds like 19 strand might be what fits YOU. However, if you want your divers to get deep fast (important on the East end where temps can be deep) we've found American Fishing Wire's (AFW) 30lb to get the job done, but it's not the most user friendly. You really have to watch this wire and not let it get any slack. Malin, Mason, and Torpedo Wire 7 strand are all around .015" in diameter, and good wires that are widely used. AFW is .012", and our Smart Troll has shown us in testing we need less wire out to achieve the depths we want with it. I have no affiliation with this company, but we run their wire exclusively. The reason being is we want our divers to get there with the least amount of line out, and at better angle into the water so green fish at the back of the boat don't get into it as easily.

[Sk8man]

I've used 7 strand wire of every brand over the years (50 plus) (30-90 pound on rods) and for the most part it is oranges to oranges rather than apples to oranges in terms of differences. Differences in wire diameter (lb test) does have some peciliarities though. For example 30 and 45 lb test wire curly cues and kinks much more readily than 60 lb test while 60lb.holds original spool memory greater, doesn't nest in the sides of cheaper rollers but can more easily "jump off" the reel when tension is released. It also doesn't curly que as much. I limit its use to Seth Green rigs though as it is too stout for running dipsies as it doesn't cut through the water all that well without substantial weight at the business end. There are positives and negatives attached to most things in life and wire is no different. John and Rick have outlined the important considerations. If you don't buffer ANY 7 strand as suggested by use of a short mono or braid segment you will eventually accrue curly cues for a few inches or feet at the terminal end of the wire and sometimes kinks in the wire and slack is your worst enemy in this regard. Wire line requires care and frequent monitoring/checking regardless of brand or type. As is the case with boats there is no perfect one as there are always trade-offs with wire regardless of brand selected or price  The diameter of the wire is important as Rick mentions and thinner cuts through the water better and achieves greater depth, but it also can be weaker in tensile strength depending on the use and circumstance. I seem to remember a chart from sometime back and I think AFW was listed toward the bottom in terms of tensile strength and this may have related to the thinner diameter. The seven strand wire is also much more abrasive on rod guides than 19 strand. While 7 strand when used with roller tips can with the cheaper roller tips run to the side of the wheel and hang up as well as cut through side plates of the cheaper roller tips using aluminum side plates but there is a more sensitive feel of the fish and less friction on the tip with rollers. Twilli tips are inexpensive and practical regarding tolerating different wire diameters but they may be harder on the wire over time e.g. 19 strand especially as the individual component wire strands are thinner.

Rich does a lot more fishing and probably has much harder use of his equipment (wire) than a lot of casual sport fisherpersons with various people handling the rods so maybe the comment about AFW should be taken with a grain of salt but I thought that I'd address it before it comes up as food for thought.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Sk8man

[Gill-T]

I played around with some Malin 40 lb wire on the high divers and liked the handling and wear resistance better than 19 strand. 

[stillfishing]

All great stuff thanks guys

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[Yankee Troller]

15 hours ago, Sk8man said:

I seem to remember a chart from sometime back and I think AFW was listed toward the bottom in terms of tensile strength and this may have related to the thinner diameter. The seven strand wire is also much more abrasive on rod guides than 19 strand. While 7 strand when used with roller tips can with the cheaper roller tips run to the side of the wheel and hang up as well as cut through side plates of the cheaper roller tips using aluminum side plates but there is a more sensitive feel of the fish and less friction on the tip with rollers. Twilli tips are inexpensive and practical regarding tolerating different wire diameters but they may be harder on the wire over time e.g. 19 strand especially as the individual component wire strands are thinner.

Rich does a lot more fishing and probably has much harder use of his equipment (wire) than a lot of casual sport fisherpersons with various people handling the rods so maybe the comment about AFW should be taken with a grain of salt but I thought that I'd address it before it comes up as food for thought.

 

Another manufacturer did a video showing breaking strength between 30lb wires, and yes AFW broke before the others. You are correct when you say it comes down to care and maintenance of your wire. I've fished with a lot of people over the years and cringe when I see how they handle their wire. Some of those people being captains. I may regret saying this, and I'm knocking on wood as I type, we don't crack off divers but once every couple of seasons. We also routinely pull a $250 Smart Troll probe on them as well. Just like everything else in life it's great that we have choices, and one product isn't for everyone. 

[Sk8man]

Great point and it certainly says something about your faith in the product if you are running a Smart Troll from it and emphasizes the need to keep an eye on things..

[ThreeDogsDown]

You guys ever just install a Twili Tip on a regular rod(with ceramic guides)?

I’m wondering if the 7 strand wire tears them up quickly or if I should just shell out the cash for a Stainless steel eyelit rod?


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[John E Powell]

You guys ever just install a Twili Tip on a regular rod(with ceramic guides)?

I’m wondering if the 7 strand wire tears them up quickly or if I should just shell out the cash for a Stainless steel eyelit rod?

Yes, you can install a Twili tip on a rod with ceramic ring guides. Ceramic ring guides better resist abrasion from wire (and weighted steel line) than stainless steel ring guides.

Trolling rods with large ring stainless steel guides are best used for softer weighted lines like copper or lead core.


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[BC FD]

What are the best reels for steel line or does it matter?

Have been thinking about setting up a steel set-up for a couple of years.

I have a few Diawa LC-47s and a few Okumas.

Not sure what model Okumas.

Anyone want to make a recomendation?

[relaxer]

Daiwa SG47lc hold 1000' of 30lb 7 strand and are fine unless you fish regularly for kings.  Then you might consider upgrading.

[BC FD]

Didn't get on the water at all last year .

Whats a good upgrade from the Diawas?

 

[relaxer]

Daiwa Saltist 30, takota A, Penn Fathom II line counters are all great reels.......or the Okuma 303 is likely a slight upgrade from the Daiwa SG47LC3.

[John E Powell]

I personally do not like the Saltist or Tekota because the line counter sticks way out on the left side and presses against my wrist. For this reason I prefer reels with top mounted counters. 

 

In my opinion the best top counter reels are the Okuma Catalina CT-305Da and the Penn Fathom II FTHII30LWLC, both a considerable step up from the Daiwa SG47LC3B. The Okuma Cold Water and Penn Squall may be slightly better than the Daiwa SG47LC3B, but not enough to warrant a sidestep to them.

Edited January 18, 2021 by John E Powell