CHIRP Transducer Recommendations?

[Pierless]

After years of using old and outdated electronics, I bought a new to me boat that has never been fished. I'm starting with a clean slate.

The ultimate goal is to use the new electronics for everything from depth sounder to autopilot. 

The Simrad NSS9 evo3 is likely the Multi-Function-Display I'll acquire. I'm planning on upgrading the MFD to a larger display when I can afford it and move the 9" to the flybridge.

The NSS9 evo3's depth finding features are so far beyond what I've ever had before that I'm not sure what to get for a transducer that will allow me to use the features it has. 

The new boat is aluminum with 5/32" thick plating below the waterline. I'm not sure if the thickness of the hull material makes a difference for CHIRP capable transducers, or not.

I've written Simrad for advice, but have gotten no response. 

I don't think I need side scanning sonar, so that makes it somewhat easier?

Does anyone have a recommendation on what a suitable, thru-hull (hole in the bottom of the boat), transducer for this MFD please? 

Thanks!

Neil

 

 

[shawn393]

I am assuming this is a trolling only boat? You want a transducer with the wide cone angle for trolling.  A lot of guys use the airmar p66 ducer. It has a 45° cone angle but it isn't chirp. The airmar 165 hw is a chirp transducer and has a cone angle of 30° . That is the widest angle chirp transducer that's available right now. 

[Pierless]

Shawn,

Thanks for the information. Every little bit helps!

Yes, the boat will be used for trolling Lake O for trout and salmon.

The Airmar 165HW is a transom mount transducer. A ransom mount could work, but the performance of thru-hull transducers are commonly stated to be superior, or at least rarely inferior. I've only ever had transom mounted transducers, but on a 32' boat it seems the thru-hull is the way to go. 

Naturally it would be nice to see the bottom at cruising speeds, which a thru-hull ought to be able to do fairly well. 

The aluminum hull thing makes installation of a thru-hull transducer a bit more challenging in keeping corrosion at bay. There are some plastic bodied, thru-hull transducers out there, but don't look like they are capable of chirping, at least from my lack of knowledge. 

It seems silly not to have a fully capable transducer with what will probably be the be and and end all marine electronics set up I'll ever have. 

It's disappointing  that Simrad doesn't seem to be available for help. Maybe I'll try giving Airmar a shot.

Thanks again for the help!

Neil 

[shawn393]

Yes a thru hull would be best for you. If you can't get any help from simrad then try their parent company which is navico. Talking to airmar would be the way to go. I have emailed them and had a response the same day 

[Shakemsam]

I am only aware of 1 transducer that works as a thru hull on aluminum boats. If I remember right, its called Alumaducer. I'm also guessing your 32' is a Marinette. Check the Marinette forum.

[Pierless]

Shawn and Shakemsam,

Thanks to both of you for your time and insight. 

I've got Airmar to respond to my e-mail of yesterday, but they asked the questions I gave specifics to in my original inquiry. Maybe they'll offer guidance, but you guys are already way more responsive. Thanks again!

The terminology for transducers isn't easily understood. When I wrote "thru-hull" I meant hole-in-the-bottom-of-the-boat kind of thru-hull. That is what I've learned through trying, in vain, to find the appropriate transducer. The Alumaducer tip was a good one though. 

I investigated the "shoot-through-the-hull" transducers by Alumaducer. They definitely looked like the way to go because who wants to put a hole in the bottom of any boat? My research showed that they don't work so well if the hull material is more than 0.1" or so. the 5/32" works out to ~0.156".

I figure if I'm going to spend what I consider to be big bucks on a sophisticated sonar system, I might as well get the transducer that will unlock it's potential. 

And, yes, Shakemsam, you pegged the boat; it's a Marinette. I've been on the Marinette forum. A dude who goes by "Fast Jeff" seems to be the most knowledgeable Marinette guy anywhere. His input was to use a transom mount transducer and showed pics of his installation. I think his words were, "easy peasy." Yeah, I'll give you that, but turbulence at the transom of a twin inboard has got to be worse than on an I/O. I'm planning on putting the transducer midships, well ahead of the prop shafts. That ought to get it into as smooth a flow as possible. 

Thanks again and I'm still open to recommendations from those who know!

Neil

[Shakemsam]

I know there is a pretty detailed install of a "shoot thru" on the Big M forum. And yes..Fast Jeff is very

knowledgeable.

[Pierless]

Shakemsam,

I'll have to go look at the Big M site again. 

So, how is it that you are so aware of Marinettes?

Neil 

[Shakemsam]

I've been interested in M's for some time and have been on the forum for a long time. I just haven't found the one I want. Some day!

I see you're in Sodus. I know Krenzer had a 32' for sale a few years ago.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Shakemsam

[Pierless]

Shakemsam,

The Marinette at Krenzer's is a roach. I looked at it and said, "no way." You'd have to have it given to you to make it worthwhile and then still have a ton of work to do to get it livable. On the other hand, if you and a couple buddies decided to buy a fishing platform and were only going to use it to thrash up the water, it might be just the ticket. 

I was hell bent on getting a Marinette. This is my fifth boat. Three previous were aluminum. The plastic boat had few redeeming qualities. My budget may have had much to do with that, but still,... I have a great appreciation for aluminum as a hull material.

In late September of 2019 drove to Michigan to look at several. The things that put me off from any of those was the cost and hassle of transporting them back here. 

There was a pretty nice one down on Chatauqua lake I nearly bought called Reel Freedom. The cost of getting it from down there was nearly the same as from MI. 

For whatever reason, Chatauqua has a ton of Marinettes. I think I counted 12 in the marina I went looking at. 

If you've been looking, you probably know the boat I bought; it was listed in Macedon on the canal. It was not easy to buy because the owner lives in Virginia and is about 80 years old, so he couldn't come up. Thinks got tricky and I wound up buying w/out a sea trial, or even an "official" survey. Fortunately I have friends that do that and they said I'd probably be OK. So I pulled the trigger last October. Very strange buying a boat w/out a sea trial, but the boat is in pretty good condition. There was some corrosion issues, but I blasted the bottom and then put 13 coats of Interlux on it followed by 5 coats of bottom paint. Best looking part of the boat now.

Ultimately, the boat is a compromise. It's a sedan flybridge and I wanted a fisherman, or whatever the model is that has no salon. That the lower helm is inside will make it a little less convenient, especially when solo fishing. Hopefully with the new marine electronics and interfacing an autopilot to it (the Simrad is supposed to play well with the Hynautic hydraulic steering), that will be less of an issue. 

Very strange buying a used boat that's never been fished. It's nice to plot out my plan of attack the way it makes most sense to me and not have to recover from other's mistakes, but folks that fish their boats usually do a reasonably good job of making things work. I'll have to live with the self-criticism when I put holes in that virgin aluminum and then realize I should have put them in a different spot. 

Still not follow up from Airmar,...

Neil 

[Shakemsam]

I knew the one at Krenzer's was bad. Plus the hull was older and has less dead rise. I am familiar with the one from Macedon as it had been listed for some time. Glad it worked out for you! I've looked at a few...Bonnie Castle in Abay had a clean 82 32' and there was and still is a repowered single engine 28' in Watkins Glen. Not very popular on Lake O but they are every where in Erie to the west. They are popular with the Walleye Charters. Holiday Harbor on Chataqua was a dealer for them. That's why there are so many down there. 

[FishingFool34]

Just FYI... Simrad NSS has wireless capabilities, instead of purchasing a 2nd unit you could connect to a tablet for your secondary location. A lot cheaper than purchasing another complete unit.

[Pierless]

Shakemsam,

Thanks for the well wishes. The pucker factor from having no sea trial before buying it is fairly high. I just keep telling myself I can handle anything it throws at me, just having a hard time believing it. I've installed new engines in I/O boats before, but the prospect of doing that when the engine room is below the salon is daunting. Oh, and there's two of them. 

I looked at just about every Marinette listing in the western half of the country and came across the Bonnie Castle one in A Bay. I never actually went to look at it. There was another one in Port henry, which could theoretically be sailed from there to Lake O, but would take a long time. I think I'd rather cruise from Lake Michigan,...

 

FishingFool34,

Thanks for your input! I am scratching at the functionality and features of the NSS MFD's. I do know they "do wireless." I'm looking forward to that capability, though I'm not there yet (my cell phone still has an antenna that you can pull up). One of the things I figured that would be very useful for is for when the autopilot is installed and then, theoretically, could change course using a tablet or whatever without having to be at one of the helm stations. I have a long way to go with the "modern" marine electronics, starting at the bottom with an appropriate transducer. 

 

Thanks again!

Neil 

 

 

[Pierless]

Finally got useful information from Airmar on suitable sonar and temp/speed transducers for an aluminum boat.

Their response to my plea is below my sign-off.

Thanks to everyone who responded to my post!

'Best,

Neil

Airmar's Response:

"The best transducer for this application will be the airmar SS75M sensor as it is very versatile and can fish in the water column as well as on the bottom. In addition it is a stainless housing which will work better for the aluminum boat hull.  if you choose to add a speed and temperature probe it will need to be one that transmits via NMEA 2000 such as the airmar ST800PV-N2."

[Yankee Troller]

If your sole purpose is trolling the great lakes CHIRP is not for you. The new 600w transom mount CHIRP ducer from AIRMAR gives you about a 30* cone, but most are less than 25*. Traditional sonar ducers on 50khz are giving you 40-45* cones. So, with CHIRP ducers you lose some of the cone angle. CHIRP ducers are typically more expensive, and for trolling purposes only give you a prettier picture. If you bottom fish, or jig for fish CHIRP really shines. For trolling your wasting your money and knocking down your viewable area. I recommend thru-hull ducers on fiberglass boats. B60 and B744v are staples on the Great Lakes. If you have to go with a transom mount on aluminum boats the P66 is the way to go. I can drop ship most ducers, so let me know what you want to go with.

[Pierless]

Thank You Yankee Troller!

I haven't pulled the trigger, yet, but am close, so your input is very timely. 

I do understand that the cone angle is generally narrower on CHIRP xducers

Trolling Lake O is the primary need for advanced sonar, for sure. 

I am liking the "pretty picture thing though. 

The Simrad evo3S has two sonar channels. 

I was thinking that getting the CHIRP xducer now, then adding additional xducer(s) next year to unlock the second channel's forward scan, side scan, total scan etc. capabilities would be the way to go. 

Do you think I'm approaching this backward? (Wouldn't surprise me,...)

I'm fairly committed to a thru-hull xducer. 

The hull is aluminum, so stainless body xducer is the way to go. 

Gladly accepting your "spiritual advice."

Thanks again,

Neil 

[Yankee Troller]

13 minutes ago, Pierless said:

I am liking the "pretty picture thing though. 

The Simrad evo3S has two sonar channels. 

I was thinking that getting the CHIRP xducer now, then adding additional xducer(s) next year to unlock the second channel's forward scan, side scan, total scan etc. capabilities would be the way to go. 

Do you think I'm approaching this backward? (Wouldn't surprise me,...)

I'm fairly committed to a thru-hull xducer. 

The hull is aluminum, so stainless body xducer is the way to go. 

Gladly accepting your "spiritual advice."

Thanks again,

Neil 

 

I can only give you my opinion. Do with it as you wish. I personally don't care about pretty, I want to see as much as possible below me. I sold a quarter of a million dollars in electronics last year, and had one of my installers working 40hr+ weeks for 5 months. I charter/tournament fish Lake Ontario. With my Humminbirds and Airmar 600w traditional sonar transducer I can mark my cannonballs down past 300', and I even have a screen shot of that combo marking my flasher down 225'.

 

I've been running a NSS EVO3s in FL the last few weeks on a brand new Robalo. Nice MFD. I put a side scan ducer on it to compare the tech to my Humminbirds. I'll never make that mistake with Navico ever again. Compared to my Humminbirds side imaging it's horrible. Probably the worst I've seen between Humminbird, Garmin, and SIMRAD.

[Pierless]

Yankee Troller,

I greatly appreciate your opinion. Thank you for offering it. Your credentials are known by me.

As I said, I haven't pulled the trigger, yet. Your input is making me think about things differently.

Perhaps we could have a phone call or meet up to cover details that I've yet to perceive?

I'd rather support a LOU member than the Evil Empire (like shopping at Guitar Center instead of Stutzman's)

Let me know if you're available.

'Best,

Neil

[J.D.]

Airmar has a nice transducer bottom coverage calculator. Select your transducer model and check the variables.  Nice info. before you buy.

https://www.airmar.com/bottom-calculator.html

[Pierless]

JD,

Thanks very much!

[Andre wallyandre]

If I can my idea on this. 
If tou don't want to spent to much money and for the kind of fishing you do, there is a Lowrance or Simrad transducer that can fit youre needs. 
It's the HST-DFSBL; it's a 50/200 khz that offer 29 deg. at 50 khz good to find fish between the bottom and top and 12geg. At 200 so very good for bottom fishing.

With the Simrad or the Lowrance you can use both at the same time splitting your screen in has a example 3 panels: 1 for mapping, 1 for the 200 and the other using 50

Part #: 000-0106-77

Thee is also the same but with the downscan so you can have the function: Fish Reveal

Part #: 000-12569-001
 

Edited February 12, 2021 by wallyandre

[Yankee Troller]

On 2/12/2021 at 12:56 PM, Pierless said:

Yankee Troller,

I greatly appreciate your opinion. Thank you for offering it. Your credentials are known by me.

As I said, I haven't pulled the trigger, yet. Your input is making me think about things differently.

Perhaps we could have a phone call or meet up to cover details that I've yet to perceive?

I'd rather support a LOU member than the Evil Empire (like shopping at Guitar Center instead of Stutzman's)

Let me know if you're available.

'Best,

Neil

 

Sure, this upcoming week I'm out of the office, but I'll be in the car all day on either Tuesday or Wednesday. Trying to dodge a snow storm. I'll PM you my number. Either day I'm honestly free and we can chat.

[Pierless]

Yankee Troller,

PM received. 

Will call you Tuesday. 

Thanks!

Neil

[Pierless]

Wallyandre,

Thanks for your input. 

By no means am I saying cost is no object.

However, I have budgeted to get the best/most applicable modern sonar gear for the new boat in the expectation I will have it for at least the next 10 years. 

Also, I am looking for through-hull transducers. Not saying transom mount won't work, but with twin inboards, xducer placement ahead of the prop shafts is optimal. 

I will continue to monitor this thread until I have selected and installed a xducer, whether it be a CHIRP, or not.

 

[Andre wallyandre]

I just add a screen shot of transducers: