will there be spring kings

[tuffishooker]

Because of the COVID 19 lockout many derbies were cancelled along with not being able to get out [ ramps closed ] ! Should leave more fish this spring for 2021 ???

[jimski2]

Does anyone remember when forty pound Kings were caught regularly?

[bluegiller]

Nope and I have been fishing the lake since the late 70's. I remember a lot of 30 lb fish. you heard about 40 lb fish but when they hit a real scale they were low 30's .

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[rolmops]

A few years ago I read an article about the cold water coming out of Lake Eerie being an impassible barrier which prevents the movement of salmon from the north shore from crossing to the American side. So the less ice in Eerie, the earlier the salmon will move south.


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[whaler1]

In 2001 16 of the top 20 salmon in the fall derby were over 40lbs. That’s a fact.



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[chinook35]

In 2001 16 of the top 20 salmon in the fall derby were over 40lbs. That’s a fact.



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Our South Shore Big LOC Kings that won each year in the fall
2008 35.12
2007 31.07
2006 38.14
2005 32.09
2004 31.09
2003 33.00
2002 39.04
2001 38.08
2000 39.09


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[whaler1]

Not accurate. In 2004 my 34.5 came in third. I will try to get Dave or Sarah to send me the data from 2001.


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[chinook35]

Not accurate. In 2004 my 34.5 came in third. I will try to get Dave or Sarah to send me the data from 2001.


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Picked that up off the spoonpullers web. Can’t vouch for it. Hard to get the old leaderboards I remember fishing the ESLO derby’s in the ‘80’s. Can’t remember any 40 lb fish entered. Heard lots of stories about 40 + back the.


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[bluegiller]

I have only seen one salmon on the scale over 40 and I used to weigh fish for the ESLO from 86 to 90. I know that's a short time but been fishing salmon since 77. The one I saw over 40 was an old couple named John and his wife Rita they were from down near jamestown and they came every fall for a month to troll in Oak Orchard for salmon. They caught it on a Pink Ping a tee lure right by way was the three bridges. I was fishing that day and had stopped at what was Hatch and Elam's just to shoot the **** like I did all the time since I was good friends with the owners. They brought the fish in and Chris Elam put it on the scale I forgot exactly what it was but it was mid 40's.

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[kisutch]

The 2001 monster class of kings was brought about by the largest documented spring alewife recruitment which occurred in 1998. That was an epic alewife year. Lake Michigan showed the same survival. This occurred just before the quagga invasion. That year class of alewife carried the fishery for 5 years and it was astounding the size of those kings. On Lake Michigan that late summer you had to show a coho pushing 20 lbs to turn heads. It was that incredible.

What made it happen? It is pretty easy to figure out if you look at the late  spring weather patterns. Temperature!'Temperature and temperature alone. The alewife are always spawning but what makes it highly successful. The fish need to spawn in their preferred water temp and the we need a heat wave. I'm talking 80 to 85 degrees plus in early June. This gets what's left of the plankton doing their thing which in turn allows the free swimming, but not very mobil, emerging alewife to fuel up. 2010 was a great year and 2012 a nice bump but those back to back harsh winter did a number. Then 2016 happened, which was another strong year class on Lake Michigan, and up here in 2019 we were putting up 30 lbs fish left and right. It didn't happen for Lady O and it still bothers me why it failed in the healthiest lake per biomass.

So pray for a normal spring and then a nice hot early June. It can do special things for alewife recruitment. 2020 was pretty damn good for alewife up here in Michigan. By far the most little dudes I've seen in the harbors and in the shallows along the shore in 10 years. I hope it happened for you guys.

One thing you should understand the Feds are out to destroy your silver fish fishery. They have given us almost 50 million Lake Trout over the last 20 years. They have consumed our once great brown fishery and now it appears they are inhaling the steelhead plants also. This will be my 45th year pursuing these great fish. If they continue to tell you that Lake Ontario needs more lake trout please tell them to go pound sand.

 

Kisutch 

 

God Bless Dr Howard Tanner 

 

Former Lake Michigan Stakeholder 

 

Lake Michigan Lake Trout Gillnetters Association 

 

Alewife what?

Edited February 19, 2021 by kisutch

[jimski2]

Many 40 pounders were not weighed in for contest entries.

[tuffishooker]

Lot of great information " Kisutch " from Lake Michigan were our sport fishery started in the 1960s ! Ditto on the Lake Trout agenda which is alive and well in Ontario to " restore the ? native fishery " 

As we saw it the major collapse was in 1994 with the ? arrival of the zebra mussel along with the exit of the smelt !

The life cycle of the Lake Ontario Lake Trout has not been established , but clearly some are living a long time !

[tuffishooker]

ps. What happened to the smelt in Lake Ontario ? The Lake Trout ate them all ! On Lake Erie I am not sure !

[J.D.]

21 hours ago, whaler1 said:

Not accurate. In 2004 my 34.5 came in third. I will try to get Dave or Sarah to send me the data from 2001.


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Ask for the data from 1994 fall derby..... a monster year..

[GAMBLER]

Huh??  Stoppage of net pen fish??  Where?   Not sure where you are getting your info but that is simply not the case in anyway shape or form.  Pen rearing is as strong as it ever has.  Is there new guidance as to locations and numbers?  Yes but certainly in no way has it stopped.  

Stoppage did happen at Sandy, Sodus and Fairhaven. I believe that’s what he is talking about.


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[kisutch]

14 hours ago, jimski2 said:

Many 40 pounders were not weighed in for contest entries.

On the north shore 40's were weighed but not an everyday occurrence. Started fishing out of Bluffers in 87. Those Canadians never bothered to evening fish. Had Lady O to ourselves for the late shift. What a time to see a dynamic ecosystem in ebb and flow. One morning in 125 feet of water the screen was top to bottom alewife. Still, to this day, the largest school of alewife I have ever put on the graph in my life. Oh and it was one line per man. The Yogis were always present and you didn't cheat. Try fishing like that. 

So I went and drug up the weekly standings of the Toronto Star Great Salmon hunt pre internet. Yes I clipped the info out of the paper. Yes I had axbuddy who collected the rag for me. One little tidbit from 1989. I have a large collection of data. For the week. Yes this is for the week. For the week of July 22 to the 26th the top 55 fish. Once again this is for one week. The top 55 fish including two 40 lbers went down to 32.18 lbs. 55th place during that week would damn near win the ESLO the last few years. On the north shore that last week and a half of July I could not sleep. The majority of monster fish, even today, are caught over there during this time frame. So now you can get  a feeling what was going on back then. I'm grateful to have lived thru this time period. You guys see 30 foot bait balls and get excited. We were looking for 60 and 80 foot bait balls that looked like a bomb went off in them. If they were tightly packed you kept searching. When you ran over that obliterated stack of bait you put in your effort there. The big boys were there. What an era of this once great fishery. When the Yogis flew up on my  boat they always wanted to know what a guy from Michigan was doing over here. Clueless. Just clueless.

Just found a missing clip for the weekly standings. The following week there were three 40 lbers weighed. So Jimski that makes 5 in two weeks.

 

Kisutch 

 

God Bless Dr Howard Tanner 

 

Former Lake Michigan Stakeholder 

 

Lake Michigan Lake Trout Gillnetters Association Join now 

 

Alewife what?

 me 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by kisutch

[tuffishooker]

Another great post kisutch ! I to am " grateful to have lived through " that fantastic fishery which crashed in 1994 with the arrival of the zebra mussel which changed the ecology of Lake Ontario !

Fishing the south shore from Port Dalhousie at those glory days we did not have much chance to compete in the Star derby as compared to the fish on the north shore !

[Hachimo]

On 2/17/2021 at 4:56 PM, whaler1 said:

Lol it’s all good! 30 days from now it will be spring!! At least out here, Oswego way has another 90 days of winter!


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Mexico Bay as of 5 min ago. Bill, U might b trailering over this way if u want to fish in 30days

[schreckstoff]

Kisutch- Welcome to LOU! I’ve Been following your posts (and corkdusts and others) on Lake Michigan sportsman forum for 8 years now and they have been incredibly helpful, thank you!

 

You will find a lot of support here for you ideas on  the role of temperature driving Alewife  yearclass strength. 2016YC was above average in LO, but it was surrounded by lower than average classes and one or more years of above average wild king production. Your observations about 2020YC are quite helpful are those from LM, LH or both?

 

Also The tournament-derby results, especially ones from the early parts of the fisheries are an underutilized information resource IMO. It’s great to know folks are collating them. I bet if a website and motivated, data-interested users pulled those results together, digitized them, and posted them it would be a great service to the fishery (cough cough hint JF).

 

You might already use it, but if not be sure to check out the report the Cape Vincent DEC & partners put out annually. 
 

Hachimo , I’m with you on that early spring positive thinking!

[Gill-T]

I am seeing signs of spring. The first wave of Starlings have arrived. Lake Erie is not frozen and probably won’t with the change in weather coming. Olcott harbor has very little ice that is unstable.  Hold onto those March start date dreams. 

[whaler1]

Mexico Bay as of 5 min ago. Bill, U might b trailering over this way if u want to fish in 30days:mooning:

No need to trailer Mike I’m fishing with you!


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[stlhdr1st]

In the early eighties the salmon hunt contest was born in Ontario. A gentleman by the name of Dan Tomey, who owned the ontario out of doors magazine put the whole contest together..if you caught a coho it was worth 1 1/2 times its weight against a king..... fish over 40# were not uncommon..one of the first year or so of running a man and his wife in a small aluminum boat caught and netted  a whopping 46+ off the mouth of the credit river..(i intend to resarch this further).im now 74 and remember us all thinking we may just one day catch one over 50..alas it never came to be...i still have a derby ticket for a 33#fish 1984, that never even got to the board.  had to be 36/38 to get there...

[Tall Tails]

On 2/20/2021 at 10:23 AM, schreckstoff said:

 

You will find a lot of support here for you ideas on  the role of temperature driving Alewife  yearclass strength. 2016YC was above average in LO, but it was surrounded by lower than average classes and one or more years of above average wild king production. Your observations about 2020YC are quite helpful are those from LM, LH or both?

 

 

What information can you provide about the impact of the reintroduction of the "native" species of Cisco/whitefish by the federal government that it has had on the food web/pyramid for the Alewife?  They compete for the same source's correct?  is there a correlation in your data that shows a drop in Alewife biomass with an increase in your Cisco/whitefish biomass over the last 8 to 10 years?  Also is there another similar correlation with the smelt that you have found?

Edited February 26, 2021 by Tall Tails

[kisutch]

10 hours ago, Tall Tails said:

What information can you provide about the impact of the reintroduction of the "native" species of Cisco/whitefish by the federal government that it has had on the food web/pyramid for the Alewife?  They compete for the same source's correct?  is there a correlation in your data that shows a drop in Alewife biomass with an increase in your Cisco/whitefish biomass over the last 8 to 10 years?  Also is there another similar correlation with the smelt that you have found?

 

Ah the introduction of lake herring and further pressure on alewife. Up here in Michigan the tribes have decided to take that ball and run with it. With the blessing of the feds but not Michigan DNR. Yes the state was wanting to let the survivors, that existed in the straits, do their thing and let nature run. But the tribes have been dumping God knows how many in for quite some time. Now up in Grand Traverse Bay, east and west, you can't catch a salmon or steelhead. But you can go sit in 100 feet of water and jig up some nice inedible alwife consumers. These fish are probably the most voracious fish that swim. Period. They consume the same biomass that our young salmonids need to grow. Up here the moron public have bought into this new fishery. Cisco have replaced what was once a salmon fishing destination into a "Look I caught a fish" fishery. It is a mess.

 

I won't even get into the purse seine situation. Yes purse seines. Cant wait.

 

It has been another nail in our coffin. Just more and more pressure on the alewife. It is all part of the plan.

 

You can go to meetings and voice your opinion or you can do what I did over here in Michigan. You come to the realization that some people in far away places have figured out what's best for your fishery. As my byline says "Former Lake Michigan Stakeholder". And yes I have been to meetings. At some point you just have had enough.

 

So let them know how you feel about your coming lake herring fishery. I ask everybody if they have ever had a Cisco rip 100 yards off a spool. My buddy caught one on a 3 inch alewife during an upwelling event last summer. Boy was he happy to send that pic to my phone. 

 

Kisutch 

 

God Bless Dr Howard Tanner 

 

Former Lake Michigan Stakeholder 

 

Lake Michigan Lake Trout Gillnetters Association 

 

Alewife what?