FISH

[relaxer]

I don't believe the DEC can do much to control cormorants because a 2016 ruling said that killing thousands of them violated the National Environmental Policy Act.  The tree huggers won that battle.  So have to prove they are polluting the water, destroying native species or some other reason to control the population.  If it were up to the tree huggers, the lake would be filled with lampreys and cormorants.

[Gill-T]

Raccoons hug trees. I like that omelet eating idea. 

[rolmops]

No tree hugging involved here. A judge and the migratory birds regulations were.


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[GAMBLER]

13 hours ago, relaxer said:

I don't believe the DEC can do much to control cormorants because a 2016 ruling said that killing thousands of them violated the National Environmental Policy Act.  The tree huggers won that battle.  So have to prove they are polluting the water, destroying native species or some other reason to control the population.  If it were up to the tree huggers, the lake would be filled with lampreys and cormorants.

The Canadians started a cormorant hunting season.  50 per day.  We need to push back and get this moving before we lose years of the fishery.  

[nickihoyboy]

This is probably just ignorance, but that never stopped me before, so here goes. So one of our wonderful government agencies decides that there should be protections placed on certain species, like cormorants and seagulls. For what purpose? It seems like both species' populations are out of control, to the point where they are causing environmental damage to other important species. Historically, were the cormorant and seagull populations ever as high as they are now, became depleted, and they are now trying to manage the populations back to previous levels, or what? I wish they would explain what their goal is by placing ridiculous protections on these birds. It doesn't take a Ph.D to know that populations out of balance with their environment can cause major harm to their surroundings. It's kind of ironic that protections are placed on these birds which have, in my opinion, minimal value to the environment, while allowing them to overpopulate and do serious damage to a resource valued in the tens of millions annually. Why are the folks responsible for these stupid migratory bird regulations placed on cormorants not addressing the issue more seriously considering the money that's involved? Typical government incompetence, inaction and pass the blame!

[Mrm31790]

Anyone interested in getting the ball rolling? I’d be glad to help out. Just don’t know where to start 

[000]

I remember growing up on Lake Ontario in the 60's and 70's and every year there was a huge die off, from Sodus to Henderson where we cruised and fished, they were everywhere, dying and stinking.

 

I have wondered since then what happened as I haven't seen this in years. Now this year, it seems just like it was way back then.

[GAMBLER]

1 minute ago, JSfish said:

I remember growing up on Lake Ontario in the 60's and 70's and every year there was a huge die off, from Sodus to Henderson where we cruised and fished, they were everywhere, dying and stinking.

 

I have wondered since then what happened as I haven't seen this in years. Now this year, it seems just like it was way back then.

The 1 year old hatch of alewife was huge.  You see this on huge year class years.  If my memory is correct, the spring of 2012 or 2013 we had a die off of 1 year old alewife.  That was a huge class of alewife.  

[reeleyz]

http://www.oneidalakeassociation.org/

 

Click on "To see DEC's update on the 2021 cormorant program, click here"

 

This has some info on the proposed Cormorant program on Oneida Lake and the Eastern Lake Ontario Basin.

 

I would suggest contacting Jim Farquhar, he is a wealth of knowledge on this subject.

 

Jim Farquhar

NYSDEC, Albany, NY

[email protected]

Edited May 26, 2021 by reeleyz

[Gill-T]

4 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

The 1 year old hatch of alewife was huge.  You see this on huge year class years.  If my memory is correct, the spring of 2012 or 2013 we had a die off of 1 year old alewife.  That was a huge class of alewife.  

2016 I believe was the largest but had the benefit of previous classes of fish getting whacked by the bad winters of the previous two years so there was plenty of food and no real die off. 

[relaxer]

This is probably just ignorance, but that never stopped me before, so here goes. So one of our wonderful government agencies decides that there should be protections placed on certain species, like cormorants and seagulls. For what purpose? It seems like both species' populations are out of control, to the point where they are causing environmental damage to other important species. Historically, were the cormorant and seagull populations ever as high as they are now, became depleted, and they are now trying to manage the populations back to previous levels, or what? I wish they would explain what their goal is by placing ridiculous protections on these birds. It doesn't take a Ph.D to know that populations out of balance with their environment can cause major harm to their surroundings. It's kind of ironic that protections are placed on these birds which have, in my opinion, minimal value to the environment, while allowing them to overpopulate and do serious damage to a resource valued in the tens of millions annually. Why are the folks responsible for these stupid migratory bird regulations placed on cormorants not addressing the issue more seriously considering the money that's involved? Typical government incompetence, inaction and pass the blame!

 

 

They were depleted during the 60's due to DDT use.  When that stopped, the population began to rebound just like the American Eagle which has become a common sight.  When the alewife population exploded in the great lakes, the birds breeding success increased to the point where we are today.  And it was groups of various environmentalist's and nature lovers who pushed against the US F&W to stop the culling in 2016 because the birds are also included in the list of birds as part of the Migratory Bird Species Act.  Even now, as culling talk has increased and US F&W is looking into better controls, there are groups who are gearing up to stop them.

 

Here is a good read to understand what you are up against with the cormorant fight.  Not saying don't take it on...but powerful groups (Audubon Society) oppose culling.  They are organized and have money for the battle.

 

https://www.audubon.org/news/without-solid-science-government-plans-expand-cormorant-killing-efforts

 

[brucehookedup]

This is probably just ignorance, but that never stopped me before, so here goes. So one of our wonderful government agencies decides that there should be protections placed on certain species, like cormorants and seagulls. For what purpose? It seems like both species' populations are out of control, to the point where they are causing environmental damage to other important species. Historically, were the cormorant and seagull populations ever as high as they are now, became depleted, and they are now trying to manage the populations back to previous levels, or what? I wish they would explain what their goal is by placing ridiculous protections on these birds. It doesn't take a Ph.D to know that populations out of balance with their environment can cause major harm to their surroundings. It's kind of ironic that protections are placed on these birds which have, in my opinion, minimal value to the environment, while allowing them to overpopulate and do serious damage to a resource valued in the tens of millions annually. Why are the folks responsible for these stupid migratory bird regulations placed on cormorants not addressing the issue more seriously considering the money that's involved? Typical government incompetence, inaction and pass the blame!
 
 
They were depleted during the 60's due to DDT use.  When that stopped, the population began to rebound just like the American Eagle which has become a common sight.  When the alewife population exploded in the great lakes, the birds breeding success increased to the point where we are today.  And it was groups of various environmentalist's and nature lovers who pushed against the US F&W to stop the culling in 2016 because the birds are also included in the list of birds as part of the Migratory Bird Species Act.  Even now, as culling talk has increased and US F&W is looking into better controls, there are groups who are gearing up to stop them.
 
Here is a good read to understand what you are up against with the cormorant fight.  Not saying don't take it on...but powerful groups (Audubon Society) oppose culling.  They are organized and have money for the battle.
 
https://www.audubon.org/news/without-solid-science-government-plans-expand-cormorant-killing-efforts
 

Once again it will take all of us to control these birds and get our fish stockings where they need to be. Whoever takes to make this happen we will find out in the near future as to who to contact. The more chatter and cackling about these issues the more we will be heard and hopefully something will happen.


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[Sk8man]

After reading the article it just strengthens my view that the way in which hatchery raised fish ( perhaps lacking environmental awareness, or fear of predators), are being dumped during daylight hours in shallow areas of the lakes providing easy food for the cormorants and gulls is something that needs to be evaluated and changed to give these vulnerable immature, and inexperienced fish a better chance at survival and also save a lot of currently wasted money. At least no matter what the government decides the stocked fish wouldn't be as easy for those scummy things to grab.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Sk8man

[whaler1]

Given the chance (legally) I’d be happy to do my part.


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[nickihoyboy]

On 5/26/2021 at 7:54 AM, nickihoyboy said:

This is probably just ignorance, but that never stopped me before, so here goes. So one of our wonderful government agencies decides that there should be protections placed on certain species, like cormorants and seagulls. For what purpose? It seems like both species' populations are out of control, to the point where they are causing environmental damage to other important species. Historically, were the cormorant and seagull populations ever as high as they are now, became depleted, and they are now trying to manage the populations back to previous levels, or what? I wish they would explain what their goal is by placing ridiculous protections on these birds. It doesn't take a Ph.D to know that populations out of balance with their environment can cause major harm to their surroundings. It's kind of ironic that protections are placed on these birds which have, in my opinion, minimal value to the environment, while allowing them to overpopulate and do serious damage to a resource valued in the tens of millions annually. Why are the folks responsible for these stupid migratory bird regulations placed on cormorants not addressing the issue more seriously considering the money that's involved? Typical government incompetence, inaction and pass the blame!

There's no nookie like chinookie!

[Chuck Smth]

 

On 5/26/2021 at 11:57 AM, reeleyz said:

http://www.oneidalakeassociation.org/

 

Click on "To see DEC's update on the 2021 cormorant program, click here"

 

This has some info on the proposed Cormorant program on Oneida Lake and the Eastern Lake Ontario Basin.

 

I would suggest contacting Jim Farquhar, he is a wealth of knowledge on this subject.

 

Jim Farquhar

NYSDEC, Albany, NY

[email protected]

 

 Hey man, thanks for that.  I'm a data kind of guy so I appreciate it. Pretty interesting to see that Goby's are the main thing they eat by numbers in Oneida, but more walleye by weight. 

 

I'm not sure the cormorants are the only source of the bad day we had. We saw lots of great suspended hooks in the Goldilocks zone for temp - they just had lockjaw. It happens. With the abundance of bait this year it might take a few trips to get dialed in. I'm looking forward to the challenge. Honestly, we've done mid-twenties numbers on kings in a single day and it was easy. Other days you really had to grind for one. That's fishing. 

 

If there was a one single lure and technique solution that always worked tackle shops would be a lot smaller!  

 

That's why I like this type of fishing. Every day is a new puzzle to work out. Even the slow days on the water are a gift. There's so much more to this sport than just catching fish. I think we all lose sight of that sometimes. Even on a bad day I always try to remind myself to enjoy the moment and reflect on how lucky I am to be able to do this. 

 

Chuck

Edited May 28, 2021 by Chuck Smth

[Chickensloop]

 
 
 Hey man, thanks for that.  I'm a data kind of guy so I appreciate it. Pretty interesting to see that Goby's are the main thing they eat by numbers in Oneida, but more walleye by weight. 
 
I'm not sure the cormorants are the only source of the bad day we had. We saw lots of great suspended hooks in the Goldilocks zone for temp - they just had lockjaw. It happens. With the abundance of bait this year it might take a few trips to get dialed in. I'm looking forward to the challenge. Honestly, we've done mid-twenties numbers on kings in a single day and it was easy. Other days you really had to grind for one. That's fishing. 
 
If there was a one single lure and technique solution that always worked tackle shops would be a lot smaller!  
 
That's why I like this type of fishing. Every day is a new puzzle to work out. Even the slow days on the water are a gift. There's so much more to this sport than just catching fish. I think we all lose sight of that sometimes. Even on a bad day I always try to remind myself to enjoy the moment and reflect on how lucky I am to be able to do this. 
 
Chuck

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