Charter Tales

[larry]

Seems like a glamorous job after all you get paid to fish but the life of a charter captain is more than meets the eye. With a lot of captains visiting this site to squeeze out some information that might help them be successful on the next trip I thought they might share what a typical day, week or season is really like. I've been a part time, weekend Capt for 25+ yrs and still look forward to a new season but dread the amount of preparation from restringing 20 something rods to renewing a license and TWIC card. There has to be an enormous amount of dedication to serve the public and put fish on the line . This could serve as a checklist for other captains and an aspiring captains job desciption. What's it really like to have people pay you to put them on a fish, are all the clients happy? sober? good fisherman? Is there ever any pressure? nervousness? Why don't they teach this in college? Please share a story so those dreaming of being a cowboy don't give up the dream or why they should.

[Paul Czarnecki]

WOW....great thread Larry! I'll have to think about it to come up with some good "client stories" but I can offer some advice after 25 years in the business.

--First of all, DO NOT think you are going to get rich. In fact, the easiest way to make a million dollars in the charter industry is to start with 2 million! At best, chartering allows you to own a boat you ordinarily might not be able to own.

--Second, if you do not absolutely LOVE to watch other people catch fish dont bother getting a license. For me, the biggest delight in my day comes when a first timer, young or old, grabs a rod with a 25# rampaging king and watches line melt off the reel. The look on their face is priceless. The look on their face when the king finally hits the deck is almost as good.

--Finally, keep in mind that if you are going to run a charter business you must be a businessman FIRST and a fisherman second. So many "captains" give the industry a bad reputation with shoddy business practices. Ethical decisions should be made for the good of the industry and you must run your business with that in mind. Undercutting rates and barroom "sales tactics" do not do anyone any good and, in fact, make the entire industry look shady. Be honest, be helpful and run your business like a business.

Have a good season!

Paul

Free Spirit

[FISHINMAN]

That's a great idea Larry and a fantastic first response Paul Can't wait to hear some of the stories that go along with it.

[BlueEye]

Paul - that is really excellent advice! I can't wait to hear what some of the other captains have to say with respect to this topic.

[Billy V]

Great thread Larry! You're absolutely right....there's a lot more to it than just getting your Captain's license and going fishing. The amount of preparation that goes into it for us is incredible; far more than I ever put into it when I was just fun fishing. For a "part-time" job, it sure feels like a full-time gig to me. I spend a lot of time during the off-season working on my website & blog, emailing and talking to customers, lining up trips, taking care of expenses like dockage, fuel, insurance, tackle, etc. Since folks are paying us to take them fishing I feel that we owe them a top-notch experience, including the latest equipment and a great boat. So I spend a ton of time working on the boat & equipment and keeping it updated. Preparation is paramount. You'll find us at the boat long before the trip is scheduled to depart and long after its over making sure everything is ready to go.

As far as the fishing goes, yeah there's pressure involved. Last year in particular was really tough given how hard it was to come by fish out our way. The customers come for the whole experience, and that includes actually catching fish. We definitely work as hard as we possibly can to put them on fish. Believe me, we'd love to put 20-30 fish in the boat on every trip out, but last year there were lots of days when that just wasn't possible. Last year there were a few days when we had to run a lot more miles than we usually do to find fish just to make our clients happy. That really hurt us in the wallet, especially when fuel was nearly $5/gal, but it was what we had to do and I'm glad that we did because we had happy clients.

We see all sorts of people on the boat...lots of guys who own their own boats and just want to see how we do things differently than they do, and those are usually really fun trips for us. Other groups are families out for a fun day on the water. I love those trips the most, especially when we get to see a kid with a huge smile on his face because he just caught the biggest fish of his life! Paul is absolutely right when he says that you need to love to watch others catch fish. If you expect to be the guy in the back reeling them all in, then this isn't for you. We get a few corporate groups too. Those can be interesting groups because sometimes guys come out cuz the boss is making them and fishing isn't really all that important to them. So you also need to be able to entertain people who aren't there because they love to fish as much as you do. Others are just a group of buddies out for a fun day on the Lake. Maybe we've just been lucky, but for the most part our clients take it easy with the beer while we're out and save the drinks till we're back at the dock and we prefer it that way.

In the end, we do this because we love it and we're definitely looking forward to another season of fun out on the Lake.

[ray koziatek]

for me to become a charter makes as much sence as buying a hunting/fishing shop... There would always be a sign hanging saying "Gone FISHING" or "GONE HUNTING"

[CBish]

I concur with Paul and Larry. I have been in the charter business twice. I was licensed in 1987, 19 years old and had my dad’s new boat at my disposal (word chosen intentionally). As a sophomore at SUNY Brockport, I thought it was great if someone paid me to go fishing, and I did not care what they paid me. The next summer I ran 150 trips and the boat into the “groundâ€. My dad, after fighting with me to take his boat on his vacation, turned the keys and the payments over to me. Lucky me I had my own boat. Lucky me I had $600 payments for the next 8 years. I continued running trips for the next 6 years then “big boy†responsibilities caught up with me – wife – kids – health insurance, ect. The low rates $320/day and failing boat made the business impossible so the boat was sold and I walked away 7 years in business, busy and broke even, well mostly broke.

I went to work for 10 years as a corporate sales manager working for an old man that knew what running a business was all about. I learned a lot, combined that with my former charter experience – quit that job, and became a school teacher so I could try the fishing business again.

Here is the formula for theoretical success in this business IMO, the details are what each captain must figure these things out for himself:

1)Set your priorities ie. Family – business – clients – fishing

2)Have a way to make a good living during the off season

3)Charge a price that allows you to make a good profit – my boss used to say if you don’t double your money it’s not worth doing. This may translate to a smaller boat or more trips to spread costs.

4)Don’t compete on a port level – clients of other captains are there to fish with them respect that if the people want to try another boat they will find you. Put your cards at the tackle shop and keep quiet.

5)Understand that a charter fishing trip is not about the number of fish in the box at the end of the day. If you yell at customers for loosing fish or get disgusted because client x can’t hold the rod upright you take the fun out of the day for the folks paying you. Think about it -- in the end a safe, enjoyable day with 6# of fillets is better than a safe, miserable day with 60# of fillets. It is not about you it is not about the picture at the end of the day and is especially not about what any other boat in the port is doing/catching!

6)As Paul said keep in mind that this is a business. I tell my clients: “I teach for a living and fish for fun, if we are not having fun I don’t want to be on the boat†while that is a true statement the real reason I am out there is for the paycheck. The fact that I enjoy the job is icing on the cake!!

7)Don’t turn away business, if someone wants a date that you have booked, refer them to another captain that you trust. The client will come back to you and the captain will someday return the favor.

Stand by for some stories.

CC

[Locoman]

Well said CBish. We'll be fishing with you Saturday. I'll ensure you have some stories to tell............!!!!!!!!!!

[Shade]

I am not a Captain nor do I want to be but I must say you guys earn your keep. I fished Ontario back in the early 70's with my dad and we had a seasonal site at Browns in Barker. We had 2 manual downriggers and 2 large spinning reels with 30lb mono test. We found a yard sale where we purchased 10 lures. The guy was a charter captain who was retiring and he gave me a spoon that was silver with orange ladder back that he made. We had no idea what we where doing so I put this spoon on and ran 1/2 the line off the real, hooked it to the downrigger and set the rigger down 75 feet. We launched out of Olcott and trolled north and south so we would not get lost. I caught 6 Kings with that spoon, I mean all where in the 15 - 20lb range. I got transfered to Texas and did not come back until 2001. In 2006 my son wanted to fish Ontario he was bored with Erie so he baught the Thompson which was all geared up for Ontario. I suggested we do a couiple of charters to see how they fished, so we did 6 out of the Oak. It was an experience to see how hard these guys work, the preperation, the logs they keep and there knowledge. We had just one bad outing, which I will not mention name, and we went on one boat twice. We did well on all the charters but the one we went on twice we limited out both times. We also did 2 charters out of Olcott. One was a fishing trip the other was more of a training or teaching trip.

Paul Czarnecki from Free Spirit represented the industry well as did the other Charters we went on. He gave us pointers and showed his experience on Ontario. You Captains need the experience as well as the technology because fishing for Kings has become a science with you guys. Water color, thermoclines, muppets, wind direction, speed, presentation, on and on. We go out look for some of the things we where taught, spent a fortune on line type, spoon colors, flashers, electronics but bottom line my son and I have a ball everytime we go out.

My son and I salute all you Charter Captains and all the members on LOU for all the help, suggestions, homemade gear, the stories, pictures, all of the things that come from this website its fantastic.

Thank you Chad for an amazing website.

Happy easter to you all..............

Howard Nola - Hannahas Banana...Olcott

[CBish]

Story #1 Title: If it can't be fun -- find another boat!!

I had a 5 man crew from downstate here is the fishing report from the two days they fished with me:

Friday

Returned to the 25N x 16W line. Began an north troll, but found the direction to be difficult. Turned the boat west and the rods began popping. Once they started they did not stop. We had 29 hits and landed 19 fish. We ran only 5 lines, 400’ copper, riggers at 80’, 90’ 100’ and a 250’ dipsy. The fish were big and hungry!!! Ernie landed a fish over 30 and Izzy had a 29 pounder!!

Hot lures

42 second spoon 80’ down

Moonshine Purple Nurple 90’ down

Grape Picker 100’ down

400’ copper WMD & Glitter green apple fly

250’ dipsy, white/white Spin Dr. Green Sigg fly

Saturday

DITTO of Friday only the fish were 60’ - 85’ down and the dipsys were firing at 150’ - 180’. We boated 23 fish and had well over 30 hits, we lost count. The only difference today was the lack of the Jumbo kings. Same hot lures minus 20’ on depth. Add a black revelator/blue green Sigg - 180’ on the dipsy.

Ok sounds like fun right? Well by the end of the second day I was out of my mind. I began cleaning fish at 11am with rods still down by 12:30 I had managed to only clean one fish and all seven rods out had taken fish. These guys were all about who's fish was who's, they had marked them when going into the box and now that I was cleaning them they were arguing about the ownership of each fillet as I stood there looking at them with fillet in hand. Well it took forever to get the fish cleaned and at 2:45 when they were arguing about the last fillet, I could not handle it any more. I lost it and told them, "IF you come back with me next year we will catch and release. I cleaned 36 fish for you guys and you still are arguing about who the last 2 pound fillet belongs to. You guys are a bunch of fish hogs and need to appreciate more the sport of fishing."

Needless to say I did see them again in 2007 --- getting off another captain's boat. That is fine by me because it opened up a prime weekend for another crew -- a crew that was FUN!!

CC

[skipper19]

CC, I probably would of been speechless....cut the last fillet in five sorta even pieces and quietly handed each their share...You guys really do have to have the skin of a rhino sometimes playing PR man. If I was a captain with that going on, I'd be at the Black North spending all my profit on their bar stock. Which probably wouldn't be enough to kill the pain or even get a buzz

Mark

[times two]

I've been fishing since the mid-70's when my dad took me as a kid, and started the

big lake stuff in 1986. We lived right on Lake Erie, and my brother and I used

to "launch" a 12 foot boat with a 15hp motor, flasher and 2 riggers....only on calm

days ...right off the beach. I still remember my mother telling us "if you really are going to fish this much, get a better boat" and we did, and with my father's help we

redid an 18' center console starcraft....115hp inline merc....that boat flew....anyway..

In 2004, I decided to take the test and start chartering, and I've really enjoyed it...

but I have the "luxury" of not having to do this full time. I can honestly say that we

have had some absolutely great groups on board, and like many of the other captains can attest to....the groups you think would come back because we hammered the fish don't come back, and the guys that didn't get as many...but laughed all day...book year in and year out!

Last year the boat bug bit again, and after much consideration ended up with my Seaswirl..not as big as some, but big enough for now......still hurts making payments in January, though....

And there is pressure..... I am way more nervous before a charter than before a day out with the boys....my dock mate "Alibi" will attest to that........ and as several alluded to....its not a just go to the boat and leave the dock to fish situation. We are often there well before the clients, and also well after the clients, because you need to clean the boat, put away the tackle, fix anything that broke or kinked, etc. And oil to change, plugs to change..... In the winter, there are shows to attend, letters to write, reps to talk to...not crabbing about that...I enjoy that too....but just to show what else is involved....

I know there are many types of captain's out there, and each runs their boat and busines the way they believe they have to, which they should. But in my mind, its

about making sure the people on board are safe, and have as good a time as possible...not necessarily that they have to limit out (although that is always good too!).

Man, now I want to go fishing !

John

[CBish]

Thanks John,

That reminds me of the day last year (see August 1st report at the link below), rough water right next to your Seaswirl. Could not buy a fish and each time we went by you -- you were hooked up sometimes doubled up. Again a crew from NYC and they rode me each time we passed: "We should be on that boat!", "Where did that white boat go?", "What's he doing that you are not?", "Call him again and see what he's using!", then after we lost sight of you, "NO!, you wouldn't want to follow that white boat -- he's catching fish!"

Although they kept the preassure up they are a couple of good guys and will be back. It was a tough day out there for me--had to make it fun and not crack under the preassure.

http://www.salmocharters.com/index_files/Page559.html

MTC,

CC

[King Davy]

It is now 10 years since I ran my last trip. Capt'ed my own boat from 1980 until 1999. Only left the business because as CBish pointed out as the most important factor in your choices ...that family comes first. I have a daughter who is/was a marvolous athlete...and I chased her around from Virgina to Maine watching her play soccer and basketball.....and I don't regret selling the boat and my service for 1 second.

I too started charter fishing at a pretty young age.....wrote for several magazines...including the Original Great Lakes Fisherman..that is now Great lakes Angler. As a kid...my dad and I fished the 1000 Island for bass and Musky's...and we used real classic fishing guides....and I always looked up to those guys. The fishing was always wonderful, but is was the fabric of the guides that made the experience some of the best memories of my life. The stories...and their attention to not only fishing detail but they understaood the legacy and history of the environment they worked in. When i started guiding...I didn't have a lot of great stories yet...but I put the time in to understand the still very young trout and Salmon fishery of the Great lakes...by also understanding the trials and tribualtions of trout and salmon of the west coast...and I got very involved with DEC on the management of the fishery.

Having knowledge about methods of fishing is highly important as a guide...but also having knowledge of the environment you work in is monumental...and I was determined to be able to speak intellengently about fishing and the fish and where they lived. Because half of the metal one should have as a guide is the ability to teach. If you have spent time teaching somebody to fish...and how to do it right...and respect the environment in which these fish swim....THEY WILL REMEMBER YOU...for the rest of their lives.

Stories.....many of you Like Larry and Jerry (Rebel) have now been at it pushing 30 years....in my 19 years I had everybody from just over the poverty line folks who scrapped up enough money to take the kids fishing...to Multi millionaires who came aboard with Cavier and the best champaine.

Mine and My Dad's worsty nightmare - My dad was a soldier for 20 years of his life...and his Sgt Major in his company was also his best boyhood friend. One day the Sgt major's daughter called me up and wanted me to take her dad and her husband fishing for Father's day. Father's day!!!! What does that mean folks....mid June...transition time on the lake. Late transition...and we might still have the thermal bar...and be able to find bows and kings. Early transition...we might have a thermalcline established and be on fish...or we might be in Transition the worst thing that could happen and have a mix of temps and fish scattered all over the place. Of course we were in full blown transition...surface temps in the high 50's and 50 degree's 100 foot down. One huge blanket of stale water trying to stabilize from 10 foot of water to 600 foot. And I fished it ALL....i was everywhere looking for fish. To date...i had never been out and NOT had at least a few fish bite. I had failed to get a fish over the gunnels less then a handful of times probably 10 years into my fishing carrer...but never a 0-0. But this was the day. Five hours into it we are keeping ourselves amused by killing the dam dear flies that come out that time of year and bite you in the ankles. Five hours in...I called it...DEATH was something like 13:00 hours.....told the Sgt I'd bring him back on me another day. Imagine my total deflation when I talked to my dad that night...because he was eger to hear how we did. I told him the story...he staretd laughing...he said that @#$% Sgt @#$%^ is still a jinx. They were stationed in Alaska for two years...and every weekend he and my dad would go fishing for salmon, trout ...char....only my dad caught all the fish....the Sgt Major stationed in Alaska for two solid years had never caught a fish there. I was RELIEVED.....took the Sgt out a couple weeks later once the lake was set up...and five minutes in broke the Jix with a 25 pound salmon.

Story #2 - Can't you catch any SMALL FISH - I had this guy call me mid July....wanted to take his son and grandson out fishing half day...just wanted to see the 7 year old little guy catch a trout or salmon. I said great let's go. They show up...Grandad was a big guy about 6'6'....his son wasn't into fishing at all and had no intention of fighting a fish...and then the grandson...typical seven year old kid. July Sandy was great salmon fishing in the 80's....and I had been hitting the kings on a regular basis off the drop at Braddocks lighthouse point....But this kid was pretty little so I figured we'd go out off the Green Can at the shaols...and hook up an LT or brown trout and have some fun. I roll into the slot...and get set up. have a diver out...and it takes off while I'm setting the second line...right away i know it's a nice king....I had a harness on board for kids and ladies who were not used to fighting big powerful fish....strapped the kid in...but with a 10 foot dipsey road...the diver and a 20 pound + king...it was just a matter of minutes Gramps and I knew...this first fish was too much for him...so Gramps took the rod...while his son and grandson watched. I continued to set some rigs and gramps winched and groaned and got this silver beast to the net....they didn't want the fish...so I left her in thhe water...twisted the spoon free and off she went...I no sooner put the net down when the starboard outdown....started screaming...I looked at Gramps...who looked at his son.....we both already looked past his grandson....his son...said no thanks dad...sso gramps still out of breath from the 20 pounder started in on the next fish. Few minutes later he lands a 25 pounder.....click a picture...release the fish.....start to set the rod and the port stern rigger is nose down tip in the water SCREAMING with a third salmon..and I haven't even had a chance to turn around and go back through my LORAN coordinates...(that's right...no GPS yet).....this is a HEAVY fish....gramps is sweating...and I'm worried Gramps might keel over on me...so he grabs the rod...but turns to me and SNEARS....CAN"T YOU CATCH A SMALL FISH FOR MY GRANDSON??????? A little while later he lands a 32 pound silver hen....just full of it....slumps down in the boat....and says No MASS.

I do miss the people....but I've always said the only people that work harder then fishing guides are farmers. I'm very happy to fish for fun and not for pay anymore....

[final flight]

i've been on many charters on the big pond and always have found the captains to be fun and full of knowlegde that they are willing to share BUT...... there are some first mates or boat hands that i will NEVER get on the same boat with. i'm a rec. fisherman on the finger lakes small 16 ft. lonestar thats almost as old as i am and i'm 51 so there is no reason that i can see for these people to be complete jerks. i do know how to hold a rod,i do know how to and when to reel, i mean after all i am paying your wages for the day. if the fish throws the hook and gets away soo be it!! if it takes me 2 mins. or two hours why would it matter, i'm sure your getting paid regardless of the numbers.,i guess what i'm saying is you charter captains need to observe your help cuz the numbers don't matter to alot of us, but the deck hands do!!! is good help that hard to find?? GOD bless the U.S.A. and our troops

[CDHC]

Well.........Everyone has Great Comments and insight on the business, I myself not a captain, but I am a businessman. A few years ago myself and a few friends wanted to get out and see what Lake Ontario was all about.

I must admit, it wasn't very exciting.

It seemed the captain had a few tooooo many the night before , after about 3 hours I just wanted to go back to the dock, it was something I never wanted to do again.

When we returned, there was a older gentleman that approached me, wanted to know how the day went, he got a ear full. The man was a blast, my friends and I had more fun with him, then we did fishing. At the end of the day, he gave us his son's phone number, and told us to give him a chance out on the lake, he guaranteed it would be well worth it.

As everyone knows, going out on charter is not cheep, but i wanted to give it another try. Let me tell you, it was a trip that i would never forget. The captain was GREAT and his first mate, yep the older gentleman that we talked with a few weeks ago. We didn't catch a boat load of fish, a few here and there, it was fishing with 2 men that wanted to make sure we had fun.

Like all businesses, there's more than one. The industry is what you make of it, when you get clients you need to make sure they come back. Look around, in every harbor charters are a dime a dozen. What makes a good businessman, is the MAN, you have treat your clients like your family, going the extra inch will get them to return.

I now own a boat, love to fish and shoot the sh*t with everyone. The sport is great and the charter captains are the one's that can keep the sport fun and exciting. Like myself, people are going to test the waters and see what the excitement is about before going to spent the money.

Hope everyone has a GREAT year and GOD BLESS.....

[stan]

As most of you know I live in California , and have a number of friends that are guides out here. After hearing there horror stories of clients you could not pay me enough to do it. It's bad enough just with people you know at times, as you watch them lay at rod on the deck and then someone else steps on it and there goes a couple hundred dollars.

It takes a person with more patience than the best psychiatrist one could afford . My hat is off to you guys and gals that do it for a living.