Interesting chat

[King Davy]

Well HB2 the domestic rainbow program is over. They shut down that stocking in favor of raising more browns. So most locations are getting more browns.

We placed 4th in the summer LOC in the brown trout division. And we put our time in fishing for browns and our experience was plenty of yearling browns, mixed in with the big fish we caught. The little brownies were as wide as they were long. All out of Braddocks. The one charter Capt I know out of Braddocks has been clobbering the browns when the temps are tight.

Our weather and water temp structure has been all over the map this year. I believe that’s our biggest culprit.

DEC are science guys but they do have bosses in Albany. So it would be foolish not to think there is pressure to find high economic return.


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[yank my line]

So now Monroe county and Wayne county don't get any salmon?

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[King Davy]

Genny gets 111k salmon. A larger allotment of browns and steelhead. The browns are still stocked at a few different locations along the lake in Monroe county.


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[HB2]

The more I think about this , the more it grinds my gears . 

 

We got bent over because we were easy pickings IMO . 

 

I don't know about the rest of you Sandy guys , but I'm ready for a fight . 

 

They can give us 25 k+  salmon , some steelhead and Brown's . 

 

 

 

 

[GAMBLER]

Nothin but love for you King Davy and the creel guy . 
 
But anybody with an IQ  higher than a canary know its mostly about economics . 
So  why don't these guys just come out and say it . I'm sick of the song and BS dance from these gov types. A lot of the  reasoning I hear from these guys is contradictory . Which make them lose their credibility . 
 
Hey Whaler , what Brown's ? 
 
I guess I will see soon enough about the King return to Sandy . Last year I landed 72 after Labor day and the year before 73 . And lost a,whole bunch more . Both stagers and in the creek on plugs and eggs . 
 
But I did not get the domestics I have in the past . Which disappointed me . And not a lot of Brown's in  the fall , but not bad after ice out . 

The browns are there. We fished them in early July and last week and caught browns of all sizes. The only exception seems to be browns from 5-9lbs. Lots of stockers up to 4 lbs and lots over 9lbs. Brown fishing is best in the summer after stable weather. We haven’t had that much this summer. When we have, the brown fishing has been good.


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[whaler1]

All I know is I’m off in the morning.
Looking forward to getting out there


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[Sweet Caroline]

King Davy,

 

Interesting on replacing domestics with more browns. Do you know how many more browns will be stocked? Although it doesn’t really matter if they stock them on a clear, calm day with cormorants around. 

[King Davy]

Don’t have the exact number handy but I believe they stocked 70k domestic bows, and would replace that number with brown trout.

I think the one brown trout limit on the tribs is going to start to pay dividends to the lake fishery in the next few years as well.




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[GAMBLER]

Don’t have the exact number handy but I believe they stocked 70k domestic bows, and would replace that number with brown trout.

I think the one brown trout limit on the tribs is going to start to pay dividends to the lake fishery in the next few years as well.




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The loss of the domestics is only going to hurt Tribs like Sandy. Sandy used to get great fall runs of domestics. High water years, most went way up but dryer years the lower sections had awesome numbers. What was their reasoning behind cutting the domestics.


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[Tall Tails]

1 hour ago, GAMBLER said:

 What was their reasoning behind cutting the domestics.


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Hatchery space in the State..............................

[King Davy]

Brian actually while I agree Domestics played a huge role in filling the gap from salmon to the trout runs on Sandy, they were prolific on the Oak, Irondequoit, Maxwell, salmon creek in pultneyville, and even Mill creek.

But my point is by losing kings, steelhead and domestics at Sandy… Sandy took the biggest hit of all of the stocking restructuring.

Sandy has become a true destination brown trout fishery, it will get even more browns but losing these other fish while I’m sure stragglers will show up will change the face of that stream. And certainly the open water near shore fishery in the fall.

But losing domestics is going to impact several watersheds.

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[HB2]

So we take one of the greatest South shore lake and trib  streams and turn it into crap . 

 

These guys know what fish are where and when . When  The  discussions were being had at the tables , was Sandys hit not considered ? 

When they decided to cut stocking numbers they had to know they were going to hear it from business owners lake wide .  

 

At Sandy ,we really don't have

any      " infrastructure " so we were an easy target to keep those happy . 

 

As I see it we got bent over , plain and simple . 

 

 

 

 

[King Davy]

I’m not defending them Gary, only giving you my arm chair QB version. The big picture for the over all lake was to try and get the best results from stocking to maintain a viable salmon fishery when they knew this year was going to have the first big painful impact of three years of stocking cuts.

I and others opposed the Sandy situation. But the Sandy cuts were included with Wilson, all of Sodus, the Sandy creeks out east etc. So plenty of other disgruntled fisherman.

You can call or write the region 8 manager, the LO section manager and have a discussion. Obviously this year the horse left the barn.

I assume the next big decision is to get the final bait fish assessment so they can plan on how many eggs to take in Oct. if there is going to be a stocking increase I think we can make a case to get Sandy back on line.


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[GAMBLER]

So we take one of the greatest South shore lake and trib  streams and turn it into crap . 
 
These guys know what fish are where and when . When  The  discussions were being had at the tables , was Sandys hit not considered ? 
When they decided to cut stocking numbers they had to know they were going to hear it from business owners lake wide .  
 
At Sandy ,we really don't have
any      " infrastructure " so we were an easy target to keep those happy . 
 
As I see it we got bent over , plain and simple . 
 
 
 
 

The truth of the matter is, we do not have any representation from Sandy on the stakeholders board. The little guy never gets a voice.


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[Tall Tails]

16 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

The truth of the matter is, we do not have any representation from Sandy on the stakeholders board. The little guy never gets a voice.


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Yes you do... 

[GAMBLER]

Yes you do... 

Who? There is only about a dozen of us left and none of them are on the board.


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[King Davy]

Brian of the 12 members, there are a combination of Lake interests both professional and Recreational. Some who work both the lake and the tribs and tributary focused.

The role for any member is NOT to be supporting one particular watershed, but to be able help DEC with management decisions for the entire lake.

The lake is broken up into four sections. West, west central, east central and east. And there are some 35 to 40 tributaries on the south shore that one must have knowledge of and be able to speak to in helping firm perspective plans.

So there isn’t a person on the panel that gets to focus on one stream, or only in the lake section they run their boat on. DEC expects members to be able to offer information and thoughts on the fishery as a whole.

I think, can’t say for sure that DEC might be entertaining some fresh eyes on this panel. I’ve been a member since about 2002, so I’m ready to move on if you or HB2 want to be considered.

However to fill my seat you’d have to be a trib rep, and I don’t think that’s where you want to be slotted. But Gary you might.

I can reach out to the bureau chief and LO section head and provide your names for consideration. With Covid we haven’t met as often. Normally it was about once a quarter. Usually some place central about an hour or so east of Rochester.

And then there are emails etc that you have to respond to. And some homework to do at times when new proposals are being brought forward. Personally I think they could use some new faces. But this is a group of folks that truly have decades of history of this fishery with tons of experience not only from fishing, but also an understanding of the science, how DEC does and can operate within the confines of New York State and so on.

You’ll have first hand looks at the future, and you are expected to keep those things within the group until DEC makes them public. So no social media blabber until it’s news that’s been made public etc.

Let me know… I’m happy to offer you guys up as potential panelists if you are dedicated to putting in the work, and have an open mind of following the process.

If they come back and are interested in looking at either of you I can message you their contact info and you can reach out.


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[fisherman777]

On 8/18/2021 at 10:52 AM, King Davy said:

Brian actually while I agree Domestics played a huge role in filling the gap from salmon to the trout runs on Sandy, they were prolific on the Oak, Irondequoit, Maxwell, salmon creek in pultneyville, and even Mill creek.

But my point is by losing kings, steelhead and domestics at Sandy… Sandy took the biggest hit of all of the stocking restructuring.

Sandy has become a true destination brown trout fishery, it will get even more browns but losing these other fish while I’m sure stragglers will show up will change the face of that stream. And certainly the open water near shore fishery in the fall.

But losing domestics is going to impact several watersheds.

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Sandy didn't lose their steelhead...kings and bows yes but Sandy received more steelhead in 2020 than in 2019.

[King Davy]

Yes I was mistaken they just weren’t pen raised.


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[GAMBLER]

There should be representation from every port, trib with a sustainable guide population and fishing related businesses that thrive off of the fishery.


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[HB2]

I would be interested , Dave , but I be live their may be more qualified people than me . 

Brian  to name one . 

But that being said , I have no agenda except for the betterment of the fishery as a whole while having shared sacrifice during lean times .  And I would hope that the person who would do  the job would feel the same . Both lake and trib. 

[King Davy]

Yeah but the largest user population by far is the average Jane and Joe fisherman. I can tell you Rec anglers and Pro’s don’t always want the same thing.

And there is very reasonable differences between them that need a common ground. And to have a manageable and productive meeting you can’t end up with 30 or 40 people in the room. Nothing gets done.

Look at many of the State of the Lake meetings that end in shouting matches etc. this panel is there to get work done.

The members also belong to the various fishing clubs and charter associations. And have been chosen because hopefully they bring with them sentiments from those groups if management decisions are to be discussed. We do have some in the room that own businesses that support the fishery.

This has been a much more challenging lake fishing season but then again are we really surprised? Three years of cuts. A draught last year that probably impacted wild production of Salmon in our south shore tribs. Heck in many of the smaller streams that normally get solid runs of brown trout, they never showed up because the fish couldn’t get up them.

So the browns spawned in the lake an estuaries, and were back in mid May mode out in deeper water not on the shore line in April. Water conditions contributed to that as well. But they are there. Just not where everyone usually looks for them.

I get a lot of flack for saying this but I’ll say it again. DEC has been managing this fishery for over 50 years. We are the only Great Lake that hasn’t crashed our program ever. Sure we’ve had up and down years like this year but there are some huge magnificent fish to be caught out there and this fall winter and spring in our rivers.

Tight lines folks.





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[King Davy]

Well Gary the changes to stocking sites for salmon was purely made in this time of significant cuts to hopefully hold up the fishery in the next couple years with higher survival of stocked fish. Never had anything to do with sites that got dropped didn’t do a great job of raising fish.

Just tried to maximize what we had for fish through science, data (that was from universal studies of stocked fish survival to mature status). All understood there would be some pain and dissatisfaction to endure.

The panelists actually take a lot of responsibility to be the few that hopefully speak for the general fishing stakeholders. I can tell you the charter capts and river guides have the entire fishery in their sights, not just their personal businesses.

As for the rest of us Rec folks we try our best to provide input that makes the best outcome for the entire fishery which has become absolutely the best 12 month a year fishery in the US for trophy trout and salmon.


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[HB2]

I realize hard choices had to be made . 

 

But to me , it didn't have to go  down this way . 

 

If they were worried about release survival , why not  Add say 5% to  each pen to compensate for that ? 

 

Instead all that was done was piss of and push away an enthusiastic volunteer base and piss them off . 

They say they want and need our support but it seems they thru Sandy guys under the bus . What happens when things get back to normal and they want to pen rear lake wide again ? 

Are the guys that were forgotten about suppose to step up ? This fact , and to me it is important , seemingly was not even considered .And that in itself is a problem .  A lot of guys put a lot of time and  money into making the project successful . 

 

 

After how this went down , will they ? 

[King Davy]

Can’t say what is next if stocking is increased. The pen crew could still have raised steelhead. Was the decision not to do that cause of the kings?



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