Catherine creek lamprey treatments

[troutman10]

https://www.fingerlakes1.com/2021/10/07/dec-will-begin-treatment-to-control-parasitic-sea-lamprey-in-seneca-lake-next-week-improving-fishing/

[Frogger]

Saw this yesterday as well, somewhat confused as I’ve never heard of them doing the application twice in a year.  Did they not hit the tribs on Seneca back in June? I thought it was all systems go with the good weather we had that month?  

[Sk8man]

The mentioning of Bayluscide is a little misleading. It is actually an additive to TFM which is the main treatment chemical. Bayluscide is readily absorbed by the sediment layer. Bayluscide has also been used on small bodies of water to control Zebra mussels but it is too expensive and impractical to use on large bodies like the Fingers for that purpose. It is also mentioned by DEC that it will "improve fishing" but it should be noted that it will take YEARS before significant impact will be seen because the treatment has no impact on the juveniles and adults roaming the lakes.

 

https://umesc.usgs.gov/documents/publications/2003/dawson_a_2003.html#:~:text=Bayluscide is an additive to TFM that increases,(2'%2C 5-dichloro-4'-nitrosalicylanilide)%2C the active ingredient of Bayluscide%2C degrades

 

Wondering if maybe they treated the Keuka Outlet in June and now doing Catherines?

Edited October 8, 2021 by Sk8man

[lakebound88]

They did Catherine in June as well. Saw the trucks there daily....

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[jerktroller]

Yeah I saw the trucks this spring on the stream on way down to PA and next day back. Article says Catharine Canal. Must be that part is done separately. 

[Jomat]

Yeah, unfortunately this is about 10 years too late.

[lakebound88]

Yeah, unfortunately this is about 10 years too late.

Can I ask why? Did you attend the last state of the lake? Do you recall cayugas eel problem from 2010-2014? Look at that lake now....

Just curious why you say its too late...

Nick

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[Jomat]

Yeah I mean I fished the lake trout derby for about 15 years until the size and numbers got so aweful we started blowing it off and fishing the southtowns derby out at Erie.  The final nail in our coffin was when we won the browntrout division with a 4.5lb fish that we almost threw back.  I’ve fished the FL tribs my whole life.  The size , numbers, and health of the fish in Seneca is really poor…every fish we would boat the last few years before we quit were skinny, large heads, and multiple lamprey wounds.  Marking huge schools of bait with maybe 1 mark around them….usually none.  Same story in the creeks….really really unhealthy rainbows oftentimes still dragging lampreys 10miles from the lake.

 

You juxtapose that with Cayuga lake just over the hill where they use the weir and lampracide treatments after high water events.  Ur catching big, clean, healthy fish.  Phenomenal size, phenomenal numbers…kinda stupid actually.  I make it a point to look over every fish we catch for lamprey marks and I think I saw 1 out of 30-40 fish boated on Cayuga over 3 trips this summer.

 

I didn’t fish Cayuga from the lake in 2010-2014, but from my perspective u have two very similar bodies of water separated by like 10 miles?  One has had active lamprey management….the other hasn’t, and the fishing quality is night and day between them.
 

 

 

And the fishing quality is night and day.

[rolmops]

In Seneca Lake specially on the south end there are old salt mines underneath the lake. These mines are currently used to store natural gas. I think that quite a bit of natural gas probably leaks through the bottom of the lake and leaches into the water, replacing oxygen with methane. But maybe I am paranoid , after all the gas company says that there are no problems. ( like the asbestos, the tabacco and lately the lead people)

[lakebound88]

Yeah I mean I fished the lake trout derby for about 15 years until the size and numbers got so aweful we started blowing it off and fishing the southtowns derby out at Erie.  The final nail in our coffin was when we won the browntrout division with a 4.5lb fish that we almost threw back.  I’ve fished the FL tribs my whole life.  The size , numbers, and health of the fish in Seneca is really poor…every fish we would boat the last few years before we quit were skinny, large heads, and multiple lamprey wounds.  Marking huge schools of bait with maybe 1 mark around them….usually none.  Same story in the creeks….really really unhealthy rainbows oftentimes still dragging lampreys 10miles from the lake.
 
You juxtapose that with Cayuga lake just over the hill where they use the weir and lampracide treatments after high water events.  Ur catching big, clean, healthy fish.  Phenomenal size, phenomenal numbers…kinda stupid actually.  I make it a point to look over every fish we catch for lamprey marks and I think I saw 1 out of 30-40 fish boated on Cayuga over 3 trips this summer.
 
I didn’t fish Cayuga from the lake in 2010-2014, but from my perspective u have two very similar bodies of water separated by like 10 miles?  One has had active lamprey management….the other hasn’t, and the fishing quality is night and day between them.
 
 
 
And the fishing quality is night and day.

Your response is what I am getting at...
The state of the lake meetings showed us how the lake got to where it was. When cayuga had the lack of eel treatments, the lake suffered.

NYS only grants the money every 3 years for the lampricide treatment. They way it fell, unfortunately became due to poor conditions to treat that resulted in inability to do so. Theres a small window.


There is a DIRECT correspondence with the high numbers or vampires and the slower years of fishing...

Why is it too late? You didn't answer that, you only stated whats currently being attended too..



Nick

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[Sk8man]

To add to Nick's comment. This is not the first time Seneca has been in the current situation. It happened in the mid to late seventies as well and it turned around after treatments were conducted but yes there is a "lag" time until the fishing improves greatly.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Sk8man

[Bigfoot]

On 10/8/2021 at 3:04 AM, Frogger said:

Saw this yesterday as well, somewhat confused as I’ve never heard of them doing the application twice in a year.  Did they not hit the tribs on Seneca back in June? I thought it was all systems go with the good weather we had that month?  

These are two entirely different treatments using different chemicals. One is used for flowing water and the other is used for deeper waters with less current. First treatment targeted the main creek, second the canal. 

 

[Bigfoot]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:37 PM, Jomat said:

Yeah, unfortunately this is about 10 years too late.

Around 2009 DEC, with help from the FLTA, installed an experimental device on the first Catherine Creek pool digger upstream from the lake that was supposed to block the lamprey spawning run. Unfortunately, it didn't work. I posted pics on this site at the time.

 

[Frogger]

That makes sense! Thanks for following up. Hopefully both treatments took especially this last one with alll this rain. 

[Trouthunter]

Bigfoot can you repost that experimental device that was installed

[Bigfoot]

1 hour ago, Trouthunter said:

Bigfoot can you repost that experimental device that was installed

I will if I can find it. The device was a series of stainless steel plates attached to the face of the drop structure that the lampreys could not attach to and work their way over. DEC bought the plates just before the state imposed a spending freeze. FLTA donated the stainless fasteners so that the project could be completed.

[Sk8man]

Prior to the rain the treatments looked good from what I was told by someone close to the process.. They monitored afterward by a grid pattern assessment and found a lot of dead ammocoetes with the eye structure present meaning they were getting ready to leave the stream and the bottom structure throughout was apparently blanketed very well by the treatment process so hopefully things will improve with time. The DEC is trying only so much can be done with Mother Nature calling the shots

Edited October 31, 2021 by Sk8man