MUST READ, DEC’s new Atlantic salmon stocking proposal.

[LongLine]

L.S.S.C.  has a real good thermal history of the St. Mary's (where they stock them.)  Also Superior doesn't have alewives and Huron doesn't have enough to say so.

[GAMBLER]

20 minutes ago, Trouthunter said:

All you have to look to is the Lake Superior State College stocking of Atlantic Salmon in to the Great Lakes this program is doing great strong for thirty years something must be right here 

The St Marys project is the ONLY successful Atlantic project on the great lakes.  What is the reason?  Lets think about what happened in Lake Huron where the Atlantics grow to reach maturity.  Huron had a huge alewife population crash.  The biomass in Lake Huron is more diverse than it was 20 years ago.  Less alewife = less chances of Thiamine deficiency in Atlantic salmon and better survival.  

[Chuck Smth]

33 minutes ago, Trouthunter said:

All you have to look to is the Lake Superior State College stocking of Atlantic Salmon in to the Great Lakes this program is doing great strong for thirty years something must be right here 

 Is that a put-and-take fishery or a self-sustaining one?

[GAMBLER]

22 minutes ago, Chuck Smth said:

 Is that a put-and-take fishery or a self-sustaining one?

It runs on a stocking program by the Michigan DNR and Lake Superior State University.  

[rolmops]

8 hours ago, Gator said:

I'm thinking that I remember a time when there was a robust landlock stocking program in Irondequoit Creek that went belly up due to poor returns. Isn't this an idea that's already failed once? Next thing you know, we will be re-electing Trump, or God Forbid, a retread like Vice President Joe Biden lol...

 

I love Atlantics, but they've proven to be a difficult fish to manage, anywhere they've been introduced. Anything less than a well-conceived, all-in approach that targets one stream (such as the SR) is going to be IMHO throwing $ in a hole.

That was a long time ago. Irondequoit creek has undergone some very extensive  rehabilitation work like removing silt from the gravel beds and planting way more trees to keep the water cold. Also, the hatchery now has a pump system that pumps up cold ground water ,mixes air into it and sends it into the creek. All of that makes I-creek a different creek from what it was 20 years ago.

[King Davy]

rollmops when I sat on the stakeholder committee I urged the plan to lean towards irondequoit Creek for all the reasons mentioned here and more. The Irondequoit actually is home to wild steelhead. I’ve caught them for years in the middle of summer (par and smolts) on dry flies. LL’s would survive and possibly reproduce in the Iron. I was around in the 80’s when they stocked it with LL’s and I found good fishing on returns. I felt they didn’t stick with that stream long enough. 

I fished the Soo for many years. And it is spectacular. But we don’t have that kind of system here with cold water even in mid summer, and the river forage the St Mary’s produces. 
 

in 2018 USF&W was working on two thermal relief studies on the Salmon. They floated the entire river in summer to locate thermal relief pockets which they did, and then were supposed to look into stream rehab projects that might create those oasis river spots for summer run fish.

 

they also located thermal relief pockets of water in the lower reservoir and again we’re supposed to look into if and how they could capture those colder thermal pockets and release them below the dam.

 

in august of 2018 I was working on the TU Oatka Creek project in the park with USF&W guys who would come check in on our work and then head to the salmon to work on its potential upgrades. Then Covid hit, and I know that work was either delayed or scrubbed. The plan as you stated never mentioned any stream rehab studies. 
 

Maybe they are working that all back in. Be nice to know.

[Trouthunter]

I do not think we will ever have the massive numbers of alewives we had say in the 80s but will also never crash like they did in to rest of the Great Lakes but I think we are having a more diverse biomass of bait fish for the salmon & trout to prey on so if we can come up with a atlantic salmon fishery lets do it long live the Atlantic

[Gator]

12 hours ago, rolmops said:

That was a long time ago. Irondequoit creek has undergone some very extensive  rehabilitation work like removing silt from the gravel beds and planting way more trees to keep the water cold. Also, the hatchery now has a pump system that pumps up cold ground water ,mixes air into it and sends it into the creek. All of that makes I-creek a different creek from what it was 20 years ago.

 

Now you're just making me feel old lol...

 

I recently spoke to a member who's been fly fishing some of the streams that my father and I (who started the Conhocton Valley Chapter of Trout Unlimited) initiated back in the early '80s. I guess all the work paid off, as they are beautiful pieces of water now, rather than the post-Army Corp of Engineers' ditches they were after the flood prevention debacles of the '50s.

 

Things do change. Good to hear.

[Trouthunter]

Gator how old are you I am 62 fishing the lake since 77 have seen many changes since some good some not so much but we still have a great fishery here. What we also could use here is some new genes from kings from Alaska as DEC is not taking the cream of the crop to stock in the lake

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Trouthunter
wanted to add more

[coldsteel]

Stock more Steelhead, Coho’s and Kings!

[greenhornet73]

Put our money into what we know is a sustainable fishery.  If a group  wants to donate their own money to stock an experiment, go for it.

[john1947]

I would like a smallmouth stocking program

$4$ smb is what we need

Average fisherman cant justify a salmon boat

If money is needed I'm here for it.

[Missdemeanor]

This Atlantic was caught a couple weeks ago.... 6 years old... Was stocked as an adult this past February out of Port Hope with 80 other adult Atlantics..
There is a ton of bait in the lake.. all different year classes of bait ( I've been closely watching stomach contents this year). Not to mention the fish is Six years old... How big do you think a 6 year old King would be? Just saying..... Yea it was a hatchery fish eating pellets, but it had 6 months to put on size and God knows there it's a tremendous amount of food in the lake this year.
The small mouth bass idea is kind of interesting... How great would it be to have that lake fishery back to its status in the 80s and 90s?


Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[GAMBLER]

18 minutes ago, Missdemeanor said:

This Atlantic was caught a couple weeks ago.... 6 years old... Was stocked as an adult this past February out of Port Hope with 80 other adult Atlantics..
There is a ton of bait in the lake.. all different year classes of bait ( I've been closely watching stomach contents this year). Not to mention the fish is Six years old... How big do you think a 6 year old King would be? Just saying..... Yea it was a hatchery fish eating pellets, but it had 6 months to put on size and God knows there it's a tremendous amount of food in the lake this year.
The small mouth bass idea is kind of interesting... How great would it be to have that lake fishery back to its status in the 80s and 90s?


Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Lake Ontario United mobile app
 

This fish is the typical Atlantic.  Look at the dorsal fin and how disformed it is.  This is the product they are putting in the lake.  Almost every one has deformed fins (dorsal or pectoral fins).  Before they expand the program, they have issues to fix before expanding.  Thiamine deficiency and poor product are two that I see as huge hurdles to get over.  

[Chuck Smth]

Lake Ontario is already a world-class - and some would argue the world's best - smallmouth fishery.  I don't think they need to work on it.  

 

With the arrival of Gobys and blueback herring it just keeps getting better and better. 

[Chuck Smth]

On 7/18/2022 at 7:11 PM, john1947 said:

I would like a smallmouth stocking program

$4$ smb is what we need

Average fisherman cant justify a salmon boat

If money is needed I'm here for it.

Clearly, you haven't priced a bass boat lately. 

[greenhornet73]

The smallmouth fishery may still be good for some but nothing like it was until about 2000 when VHS hit them and the shoreline was covered with dead smallies . I haven’t seen fishing anything like previous to that die off.

[Chuck Smth]

Greenhornet73, I have to differ with you on that one. It's the best I've ever seen it, and the fish are monsters. Look at the results from last weekend's Elite Series tournament.  NYS is now regarded as one of the top bass fishing states in the US. Between Cayuga, Oneida, and Ontario you can catch world-class fish on any given day.  Four pound fish don't even impress anymore. Has to be over six to get any attention.

 

 

We now return you to atlantic salmon. Ah yes, a controversial little fish that one.  I still say if they can get a summer run fishery in the creeks let's do it. The more fisherpeople we have the better it is for everyone. 

 

IMHO, YMMV