Wind Energy Study for Lake Ontario

[King Davy]

NYSERDA is the New York power and energy authority that performed the study of putting Wind Mills in the open waters of Lake Ontario. 
 

I was involved as an interested stakeholder and attended their live public meetings and presented several challenging questions especially on the environmental impact of drilling into the bedrock of LO and what that would do to the heavy metals that have settled to the floor of the lake. And how that disturbance would effect the food web and top end predators (Trout and Salmon) in the offshore waters (500 foot) where they planned to locate them.

 

Including tens of 1000’s of transmission cables running to shore and dozens of energy collection facilities.

 

The results of the study are out and the findings found that wind mills in the open waters of the lake did not make financial sense from the cost to construct the operation to the ROI of actual energy collected. They didn’t detail the “other” business case failures but I believe they couldn’t realistically measure what the possible environmental impact would be to disturb the LO off shore environment.

 

So this renewable green energy solution is now off the table.

[spinfly]

It is never as "green" as they claim it to be.

[wishinfishin]

Great ! Good news

[jeb1340]

Can you post a link to the study?

[King Davy]

Try this website link. There is a lot of reading. I haven’t gotten started on it yet. It looks comprehensive, but we’ll see once you dig into it.

 

https://click.nyserda.ny.gov/?qs=c5737d2c89d8938245b49bdb7a8b39eac102344701d3a94c71896c1edace4f57267f5f62484c35361b55a3d2519f3ab37dbb00f13bd18aca

[finsntins]

thats great news that its dead,too bad they had to waste tax payer dollars on the study.

[King Davy]

I started diving into the study. Check out the chapters on environmental study and impact. In my opinion they captured and exhaustive amount of data setting up the environment that could be effected. You have to get into section 4 to start reading what the study team determined would be the impact of construction of the Mills, and after completion impacts. 
 

Understand this has never been attempted in the Great Lakes so their results of impacts were literally logical guessing from what I can tell. Nobody has ever drilled into the bedrock of either Ontario or Erie so there is no data results of how that activity actually impacts the environment. I’m glad they’ve seemed to do the diligence in this study so we can close this book hopefully forever.

[chinook35]

This has been an issue for more than 14 years   NYSERDA was directed by the then gov Cuomo , to do a feasibility study. There have been many attempts to place wind turbines offshore and on Galloo Island , the latest that I’m aware of was from Iberdrola , a Spanish power company. The Towns of Henderson and Sackets harbor retained legal counsel to thwart them and they eventually pulled the plug   TheGov stated “ the state , not the towns , would determine where wind turbines would be placed “  taking the townships out of the equation. I’m glad NYSERDA did a complete study and didn’t gloss over the downside.  We need to keep a close eye on the NY politicos. There is big money involved and great opportunities for corruption 

[jeb1340]

Just looking around and found this

https://portal.nyserda.ny.gov/CORE_Solicitation_Detail_Page?SolicitationId=a0r8z0000009q5SAAQ&_gl=1*ndwly0*_ga*MjA2MDg0OTQ4OC4xNjcyNTA0MjUy*_ga_DRYJB34TXH*MTY3MjUyNjYxMC4zLjAuMTY3MjUyNjYxMC4wLjAuMA..

 

I’m not sure it’s dead yet.

[jeb1340]

https://portal.nyserda.ny.gov/CORE_Solicitation_Detail_Page?SolicitationId=a0r8z000000AdArAAK&_gl=1*17cnnak*_ga*MjA2MDg0OTQ4OC4xNjcyNTA0MjUy*_ga_DRYJB34TXH*MTY3MjUyNjYxMC4zLjAuMTY3MjUyNjYxMC4wLjAuMA..
 

The title alone on this one is very interesting!

[rolmops]

This takes the subsidies out of the equation. Between these and the tax brakes it could still be profitable to place the mills in the lake.

Besides, the rapid advances in technology may very well make the mills profitable using all these conclusions. So just hold your breath.

[King Davy]

I think at this point the ROI is way to long for NYS which is essentially broke. If you read the sections on bird migrations and the many species (way more than I ever thought of) you’d have the feds fighting NYS plus all the fowl enthusiasts and environmentalists in court with the State which would tie up this thing for decades.

 

in one of the meetings the study team admitted that the size of the ships that can carry these mills were larger than could ever fit through the locks on the St Lawrence. I know the budget for this study was $1 M dollars and was supposed to be out in January of 2022. Almost a year late which probably means they were over budget.

[chinook35]

There is a wealth of information in the thread “ wind turbines on Lake Ontario “ at the top of this forum.  As to the size of the blades and towers fitting through the locks , that was not an issue. The public boat launch at Henderson harbor was to be the staging area for construction. The harbor dredged to allow work boats to access the launch. The entire launch would be put off limits to recreational use during construction. Just one of the many reasons to fight this misuse of the green energy initiative 

[HB2]

The way I see it , it's not about power or green . It's about putting money in the right people's pockets . 

 

 

[lrg355]

I think they would be much nicer at Martha's Vineyard.

[GAMBLER]

On 1/1/2023 at 6:56 AM, HB2 said:

The way I see it , it's not about power or green . It's about putting money in the right people's pockets . 

 

 

You hit the nail on the head with this one.  

[rolmops]

On 1/1/2023 at 6:56 AM, HB2 said:

The way I see it , it's not about power or green . It's about putting money in the right people's pockets . 

 

 

You just reminded me of the "The Fast Ferry"

[GAMBLER]

On 12/31/2022 at 4:25 PM, King Davy said:

I started diving into the study. Check out the chapters on environmental study and impact. In my opinion they captured and exhaustive amount of data setting up the environment that could be effected. You have to get into section 4 to start reading what the study team determined would be the impact of construction of the Mills, and after completion impacts. 
 

Understand this has never been attempted in the Great Lakes so their results of impacts were literally logical guessing from what I can tell. Nobody has ever drilled into the bedrock of either Ontario or Erie so there is no data results of how that activity actually impacts the environment. I’m glad they’ve seemed to do the diligence in this study so we can close this book hopefully forever.

Actually, the bedrock has been drilled into by the Water Authority.  Our intake in the new plant was drilled thought the bedrock for 1.5 miles out into the lake under the lakes surface.  

[Gator]

You sure you want to admit that? Next kid born with three eyes in the Flour City, they may come looking for a scape goat. 

 

It's funny that Brian and I were having this identical conversation just a few days ago, and our ultimate conclusion was, "follow the money". Like lawyers, the folks who generate the EIS also make money, no matter whether it's green lighted or not. As do construction and (at some point) the demolition crew.

 

I think that this was a good decision. Too many unknown variables.

[King Davy]

Just curious Gambler, did the water authority have to get state and or federal permits to drill and was an environmental impact study required to investigate post drilling if there was any impact to water quality?

[GAMBLER]

3 hours ago, King Davy said:

Just curious Gambler, did the water authority have to get state and or federal permits to drill and was an environmental impact study required to investigate post drilling if there was any impact to water quality?

Not sure Dave.  I would think they had to.  There were a lot of hoops to jump through before the plant construction was started.  

[King Davy]

Ok thanks Brian.

[rolmops]

When the bridge across Irondequoit Bay was built the bedrock was also drilled into. This opened a connection between the bay water and the aquifer underneath. As a result , the salinity of the aquifer's water became much higher. If my memory (what's left of it) serves me well, this was one of the reasons why the Webster water company shut down.

[GAMBLER]

42 minutes ago, rolmops said:

When the bridge across Irondequoit Bay was built the bedrock was also drilled into. This opened a connection between the bay water and the aquifer underneath. As a result , the salinity of the aquifer's water became much higher. If my memory (what's left of it) serves me well, this was one of the reasons why the Webster water company shut down.

Webster was shut down due to issues with their wells.  It was not from salinity.  

[AnglingAddict]

On 12/31/2022 at 4:25 PM, King Davy said:

I started diving into the study. Check out the chapters on environmental study and impact. In my opinion they captured and exhaustive amount of data setting up the environment that could be effected. You have to get into section 4 to start reading what the study team determined would be the impact of construction of the Mills, and after completion impacts. 
 

Understand this has never been attempted in the Great Lakes so their results of impacts were literally logical guessing from what I can tell. Nobody has ever drilled into the bedrock of either Ontario or Erie so there is no data results of how that activity actually impacts the environment. I’m glad they’ve seemed to do the diligence in this study so we can close this book hopefully forever.

Really appreciate your involvement as a stakeholder - what would be ideal is for legislation to be brought forth based on this NYSERDA study that seeks a moratorium on the turbines in fresh waters of NY state....Thank you. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by AnglingAddict