Thoughts on this study?

[Dan M]

Eating locally caught freshwater fish can put PFAS in human blood, study says (msn.com)

[Queechylakepro]

There have been eating "advisorys" since the 70's. Probably slow news cycle so its back in the news.

[Frogger]

Use to be the samples measured were ground up “fish whole” with toxins revealed as to what amounts were in found. This was because FDA and state gov couldn’t predict someone wouldn’t consume the whole fish.  A study a few years ago now,  took a head of lettuce and was measured against a fish that was filleted with no centerline and no skin and was in the ppb levels equal to that of the store shelf lettuce. It was an interesting article. 

[Sk8man]

I'm no expert on this and it is a serious matter but one thing in addition to what Frogger mentioned is the way in which a fish is filleted and prepared. I have always filleted my fish no matter what species or fresh or salt water variety. They are filleted such that all visible fat areas are eliminated from the fillet which means staying away from the back and belly areas, carving out any grey matter (mid line). Yes you don't get all the flesh but you do reduce the contaminants. The second thing is I either bake or air fry nearly all of my fish. Although I love deep fried fish (or chicken or anything else) I avoid it cooking fish this way. The oil may concentrate chemicals or contaminants.  Most of the fish I eat these days are perch so hopefully the contaminants will be minimized given the size of the fillets. I catch and release trout and salmon these days for a variety of reasons.

[schreckstoff]

A Lake Ontario specific study on this topic:

Bioaccumulation of perfluoroalkyl substances in a Lake Ontario food web

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0380133021001799
 

[Gator]

I source my PFAs straight from the lab, so I know exactly how much to use to get that perfect flavor.

 

Seriously, though, and not to hijack this thread, but over the past decade I have become severely alcohol intolerant. I have a hangover before getting a buzz!! I'd think that it's a me thing, except that there's at least several of us on this board alone that now have the same issue. It happened as we got older. Knowing how some of these chemicals manufactured in labs can interact with our genome in unexpected ways makes me wonder how prevalent this sort of age-onset allergy is these days, and whether it's linked to environmental toxins. There's begun to be some interest at the national level in this sort of general phenomenon. We know the incidence of childhood food allergies are rising, and it's not crazy to extrapolate to older adults.

 

Anybody else here experience unexplained allergies with age?  Of the eight or so folks I know with alcohol intolerance, all are men. Obviously, I'm not claiming cause-and-effect with fish borne toxins, but it's enough to make me raise one eyebrow and throw this out there for discussion.

[tuffishooker]

No PROVEN health hazards to eating fish from Lake Ontario !

[Gill-T]

My takeaway is things are improving. 

[Gregger300]

2 hours ago, Gator said:

I source my PFAs straight from the lab, so I know exactly how much to use to get that perfect flavor.

 

Seriously, though, and not to hijack this thread, but over the past decade I have become severely alcohol intolerant. I have a hangover before getting a buzz!! I'd think that it's a me thing, except that there's at least several of us on this board alone that now have the same issue. It happened as we got older. Knowing how some of these chemicals manufactured in labs can interact with our genome in unexpected ways makes me wonder how prevalent this sort of age-onset allergy is these days, and whether it's linked to environmental toxins. There's begun to be some interest at the national level in this sort of general phenomenon. We know the incidence of childhood food allergies are rising, and it's not crazy to extrapolate to older adults.

 

Anybody else here experience unexplained allergies with age?  Of the eight or so folks I know with alcohol intolerance, all are men. Obviously, I'm not claiming cause-and-effect with fish borne toxins, but it's enough to make me raise one eyebrow and throw this out there for discussion.

Thoughts and prayers Gator...Power through it

[Pete Collin]

I used to have wicked, debilitating hayfever seasonally.  But it went away as I got older.  Nice to know some things improve.  But Gator, I hear you about the alcohol.  One time I went to dinner and bought a beer "flight", sampling a small amount of several kinds of beer.  I was hardly drunk, but was sick all the next day.  From then on I cut myself off after 2 drinks.  Not a big deal, but nobody warned me that about getting older!

[rolmops]

5 hours ago, Gator said:

I source my PFAs straight from the lab, so I know exactly how much to use to get that perfect flavor.

 

Seriously, though, and not to hijack this thread, but over the past decade I have become severely alcohol intolerant. I have a hangover before getting a buzz!! I'd think that it's a me thing, except that there's at least several of us on this board alone that now have the same issue. It happened as we got older. Knowing how some of these chemicals manufactured in labs can interact with our genome in unexpected ways makes me wonder how prevalent this sort of age-onset allergy is these days, and whether it's linked to environmental toxins. There's begun to be some interest at the national level in this sort of general phenomenon. We know the incidence of childhood food allergies are rising, and it's not crazy to extrapolate to older adults.

 

Anybody else here experience unexplained allergies with age?  Of the eight or so folks I know with alcohol intolerance, all are men. Obviously, I'm not claiming cause-and-effect with fish borne toxins, but it's enough to make me raise one eyebrow and throw this out there for discussion.

I have the same experience, but I solved the problem by changing from Sam Adams to Yungling. Now I’m good again. 
It might be that the culprit is hops instead of alcohol.

[GAMBLER]

10 or so years ago, I received a survey from the NYSDOH about fish consumption from Lake Ontario.  I filled it out and was contacted to join in the study.  They took blood and urine samples.  A couple weeks later, I was called to schedule a follow up appointment.  During the appointment they went over my test results.  My results came back well below normal on all levels for contaminants found in Lake Ontario and Lake Erie.  I consume a lot of perch, some pike, walleye and trout and salmon from Lake Ontario.  I'm not worried about it one bit.  

[Frogger]

Whaler talked you in to not eating lakers……..

[whaler1]

Cmon Mike, nobody eats lakers do they? Say it ain’t so!

[HB2]

I to use know a guy that use to eat a ton of LO fish of all kinds . Sadly he died mysteriously one day . Quite possibly from what was described . He was 97 years old. 

 

As far as food allergies etc in children. After getting in my eat healthy kick a few years back I started to read the ingredients on the labels  at the advice of a nutritionalist.It amazes me the amount of crap we are feeding ourselves and our children we call food . 

 

And we are worried about some fresh fish ? 

[Reel Doc]

4 hours ago, GAMBLER said:

10 or so years ago, I received a survey from the NYSDOH about fish consumption from Lake Ontario.  I filled it out and was contacted to join in the study.  They took blood and urine samples.  A couple weeks later, I was called to schedule a follow up appointment.  During the appointment they went over my test results.  My results came back well below normal on all levels for contaminants found in Lake Ontario and Lake Erie.  I consume a lot of perch, some pike, walleye and trout and salmon from Lake Ontario.  I'm not worried about it one bit.  

That's a study I would love to see full results of.  The question is, did they test a group that eats store bought fish only and compare levels.  When you go to a store and see fish/shellfish with origins of SouthEast Asia countries where there is minimal if any control of water contamination it is concerning.

[Reel Doc]

13 hours ago, schreckstoff said:

A Lake Ontario specific study on this topic:

Bioaccumulation of perfluoroalkyl substances in a Lake Ontario food web

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0380133021001799
 

Be great to see difference of levels in sport fish before leaving the hatchery and 1,2,3 years in the lake.  Then reevaluate every 4-5 years and see if progress is being made

[rolmops]

What saddens me in this case is that we do not seem to learn of our previous mistakes.

First we dumped PCBs by the thousands of tons into our lakes and streams and made fish inedible and gave a lot of the polluters a free ride to make bigger profits by not having to clean up after themselves and now we find out that the same was done with these forever chemicals. As long as big money has big political power we will just keep on having our precious resources polluted so more profit can be made.

[HB2]

4 minutes ago, rolmops said:

What saddens me in this case is that we do not seem to learn of our previous mistakes.

First we dumped PCBs by the thousands of tons into our lakes and streams and made fish inedible and gave a lot of the polluters a free ride to make bigger profits by not having to clean up after themselves and now we find out that the same was done with these forever chemicals. As long as big money has big political power we will just keep on having our precious resources polluted so more profit can be made.

We all want and use all this modern stuff that makes our lives better and gives us higher standards of living cheaper .And everybody, everybody, wants cheaper.  Our clothes,homes , vehicles , boats . Even the plastic lures and the paints on them . Everything is plastic or some sort of composite . The production process of these materials are extremely invasive . These " profit mongers "are giving us exactly what we want . 

 

 

[Gator]

Like most of you, I'm far less worried about eating locally sourced fish than I am about all the other crap that's used to make the stuff around us, things that we'd have never even considered a decade ago. Teflon coatings. Microplastics in our shaving cream. I'm no Chicken Little, but there's enough data out there to conclude that many of these things are not entirely benign. The issue is determining cause-and-effect. I mean, look, it took 40 years for public acknowledgement that cigarettes might have some nasty stuff in them that's bad for you. And that was like, "Duh, of course" to most folks. I can't imagine how long it will take to do the same for the less obvious stuff we use every day.

 

And it's cost-benefit, too. Try weighing some ridiculous allergy again the benefits of plastic. Non-starter. That is, until we find out that we've sterilized the human race by creating a cosmic Dr. Snip through some unanticipated avenue - like applying flame retardants to baby's clothing - we won't move on the issue. 

 

So, since we can't do jack all about it, we should all just grab some wings and a beer and enjoy the games this weekend. Go Bills!

[rolmops]

1 hour ago, Gator said:

Like most of you, I'm far less worried about eating locally sourced fish than I am about all the other crap that's used to make the stuff around us, things that we'd have never even considered a decade ago. Teflon coatings. Microplastics in our shaving cream. I'm no Chicken Little, but there's enough data out there to conclude that many of these things are not entirely benign. The issue is determining cause-and-effect. I mean, look, it took 40 years for public acknowledgement that cigarettes might have some nasty stuff in them that's bad for you. And that was like, "Duh, of course" to most folks. I can't imagine how long it will take to do the same for the less obvious stuff we use every day.

 

And it's cost-benefit, too. Try weighing some ridiculous allergy again the benefits of plastic. Non-starter. That is, until we find out that we've sterilized the human race by creating a cosmic Dr. Snip through some unanticipated avenue - like applying flame retardants to baby's clothing - we won't move on the issue. 

 

So, since we can't do jack all about it, we should all just grab some wings and a beer and enjoy the games this weekend. Go Bills!

Thank you for this. You just put some whip cream on my morning coffee.  I barely got my breath back from laughing at Jimmy Kimmels's skid on George Santos and now you top it off with a cosmic Dr Snip.

[GAMBLER]

14 hours ago, Reel Doc said:

That's a study I would love to see full results of.  The question is, did they test a group that eats store bought fish only and compare levels.  When you go to a store and see fish/shellfish with origins of SouthEast Asia countries where there is minimal if any control of water contamination it is concerning.

I can't remember exactly what else was in the study but they compared people that eat fish from Lake Ontario to people that didn't eat any fish from Lake Ontario.  Shortly after the study, they changed the fish consumption guidelines.  

Edited January 20, 2023 by GAMBLER

[Sk8man]

I'm with Gator. It also is pretty discouraging that none of the companies that have polluted the environment have been truly held accountable. At most with the most agregious stuff they are given a miniscule fine at best (when or if reported or litigated) and then it's "business as usual" and over time all these dangerous toxins have continued to be emitted into the environment (air and water, land etc.) The governmental agencies involved at both the state and federal level have most often turned a blind eye for various self-serving reasons and the public supporting them has been the victims. Some of it is incompetence and some appears as corruption and graft and anytime you get money attached to something it tends to corrupt the public interest anyway. The fisaco on Seneca Lake with bit coin mining is a prime example of both incompetence by a state agency and the money behind a environmental problem corrupting the process. We also have to wonder how many more "time bombs" we are unwittingly sitting on.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Sk8man

[Reel Doc]

In related news.......

I love how they pay themselves on the back for being the company to achieve this, even though it took 5 years to accomplish......

[Sk8man]

Yep and of course it does nothing to address the 100 plus degree temp of the water exiting the plant in the millions of gallons daily.